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Old 07-17-01 | 01:19 PM
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clicking noise in threaded headset

I have a quick couple of questions. First some details.
Last night on my commute home I noticed a clicking sound coming from the area of my headset/handlebar. I looked through two of my repair manuals for info on checking/repairing headsets. I've never done this before. Ooh, that's scary

It is a road bike about 2-1/2 years old with about 3000 miles on it. The headset has never been worked on.
Tonight I'm going to tear it apart and inspect it. I don't want any surprises so here are the questions.

From your experience what can I expect to find? Will the repairs be tough?

Thanks.

Ron
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Old 07-17-01 | 02:06 PM
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I expect you will find one or more of the following:

A) a lack of adequate lubrication (grease)
B) A crack somewhere
C) Your fork was loose.
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Old 07-17-01 | 07:09 PM
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Ron,
If you have 3000 miles, you need an overhaul (clean and repack like a wheel hub). My book suggests once a year for regular road riders. More often for mountain bikes. I assure you, overhauling your headset is very do-able. I just did my second one. Same principle as doing a hub. Both the ones I have done had bearings in retainers. The only complication I had was that I did not pay attention to how the bearings were oriented the first time so I had to figure it out.

Today I did the headset on the old new Bianchi Brava I just got. Having overhauled the hubs and bottom bracket, I turned my attention to the headset. KaChunk, KaChunk. The lock nut was about half a turn short of hand tight. I just spun it off, really concerned about what I might find. Everything was OK except a little scarring of the paint where the steerer tube was apparently contacting the upper lip of the lower cup. Again as with the hubs, the cones showed zero wear - not even a little silver line where the bearings roll. Bearings were dry. Cleaned everything spick and span, greased it up, and put it back together.

Tips:

1. Remove the front brake assembly because it will be very difficult to get the bar out
1. Note and remember the order and orientation of bearings, dust seals, etc., when you disassemble.
2. Keep the bearings segregated so you put the top ones back on top and the bottoms back on bottom. I reused the same bearings because I know they have little to no wear. My book says to replace them because with wear they get kind of egg shaped They are fine as long as they are in place, but when you reassemble they will not be exactly oriented and can cause excessive cup wear. I'm just relaying what the book says here.
3. Get a real wrench of the right size for the adjustable cone/cup. You can get away with a Crescent for the lock nut if you have one big enough, but you need the thin wrench for the adjustable cone/cup.

Other than that you just tighten the adjustable cone/cup until it contacts the bearings slightly snug, back off until the fork turns freely but with no play, then tighten the lock nut down against the adjustable. Once you get everything back together, check it by applying the front brake and trying to rock the front wheel back and forth. If you feel any clunk, clunk, you may have it too loose. You don't have to disassemble everything, just back the lock nut off, turn the adjustable in a little and lock it back down. Check it again, etc. TaDaa!

Did I get it about right, Guys?

Give us a report.
Regards,
Raymond
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Old 07-18-01 | 08:57 AM
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Thanks for the help guys. :thumbup:
I took the headset apart last night and found the bearings were DRY but not pitted and no flat spots.
FYI: I had to wait until last night because I work the 10 am to 7 pm shift and didn't get home Monday night until 8 pm. Yesterday I drove the car :eek and got home a little earlier.

I'm basically lazy when it comes to bike maintenance. I do the bare minimum and only when it is really necessary. But I'm trying to mend my ways. Plus I don't have all of the "special" bike tools. I have lots of the regular tools (wrenches, allen wrenches, sockets, pliers of all kinds, screwdrivers, etc.), American and metric. I've only recently purchased a pedal wrench and Park third hand brake tool. My next purchase may be the tools to work on my bottom bracket and maybe a cone wrench??

Again, thanks for your help and if you have any suggestion on basic tools I should have, feel free to pass those on. Both of my bikes have all Shimano components (105 on the commuter bike and Ultegra on the road bike).

Ron
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Last edited by RonH; 07-18-01 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 07-18-01 | 10:15 AM
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Ron,
It looks to me like there aren't that many special tools needed for basic maintenance. I suggest the following.
1. Hubs - Cone wrenches. You only need an actual cone wrench for the cone itself. On the lock nut, you can use a box end or open end (I always just get combinations with box on one end and open on the other) or socket. I got the little Park double ended so you get two sizes. Since I don't used it that often I figured I didn't need the heavier padded pro version. I think it was only about $4-5.

2. Headset - apparently you already have, but for anyone else, you do need an appropriate size headset wrench for the adjustable cone/cup because the nut is thin. A large Crescent wrench will do for the lock nut. About $11

3. Bottom bracket - crank extractor and lockring spanner, adjustable cone pin spanner - I got a Lifu combination crank extractor/crank bolt wrench for about $7 from Nashbar (it's on sale right now for $5.10). Works like a charm. Appropriate Park BBT lock ring spanner, hook on one end, 3 point spanner on the other, cost about $14. Park pin spanner SPA3 for adjustable cup about $5. I have an older Shimano 105 bb. Standard tapered square axle, servicable bearings, etc.

So what's that make? Something a little less than $50.

The bottom bracket is no harder than hubs. You just have to follow the instructions and be careful with the crank extractor so you don't mess up any threads.

For freewheel and cassette removal you just need the appropriate lockring or freewheel remover. They cost from $5-6. Park FR5 for most Shimano (Hyperglide) cassettes, FR1 for Shimano freewheels. It's easier to service rear drive side hub bearings on older bikes if you remove the freewheel.

Some of the tools mentioned are specific to that particular brand model. The bike I have been working on has older 105 components, the other brand new 105. I have not done everything on it yet so I may need a couple of different toolsfor the bb. Other than the tools mentioned you just need basic stuff like metric wrenches and hex wrenches. If you need to cut cables or housing, spend $30 and get a real cable and housing cutter to get good clean cuts.

All the special tools you need cost less in total than having just one or two of the jobs done. And it is a real feeling of accomplishment and, as Mike said, independence. I am really glad I got into this while my bikes are new so I can really keep them ticking and make them last.
Regards,
Raymond
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Old 07-18-01 | 10:53 AM
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Rainman,

This forum is getting me into trouble.

I started commuting after reading several of the posts. My wife thinks I'm nuts but lets me do it anyway.

You, and other pros on the forum make it sound so simple to repair bikes that now I'm getting excited about doing many of my own repairs.

How do I determine which tools I'll need? Nashbar and Performance list lots of tools from Pedro's, Park, and their own brands, but some are for certain manufacturers or models. Do I have to take my bike to my LBS and ask them which tools I'll need for my BB, hubs, etc.? Unfortunately reading manuals doesn't give me this info.
Thanks.

Ron
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Old 07-18-01 | 12:29 PM
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Ron,
It can be a little difficult figuring out exactly what you. If you have a little caliper or something like that, you can measure things like the width of the flats on your cones to see what they are. I think mine are 15 mm on the cone, 17 on the lock nut, again older (late 80's) 105 hubs. You can also measure your headset adjusting nut and lock nut. My old 105 takes 32 mm for both. I think the crank extractor is universal. Crank bolts are generally 15 mm. The Lifu combo comes with a reversable 14/15 mm socket so you are pretty much covered. You can spin off the crank bolt dustcap with the end of a spoke in one of the holes or bend a spoke to the same length and use both ends. It's plastic and not too tight. If your bb adjustable cup has 4 equally spaced holes, you need the Park SPA3 (green) pin spanner. If your bb is a sealed cartridge I guess it will be different. Since it is fairly new, it might be.

If your bb lock ring has notches around it, I think the HCW4 will do you. It has a hook on one end and a crescent with 3 little lugs to engage the notches. Use the 3 lug end if it fits, the hook if it doesn't. It's easier with the 3 lug. All these bb descriptions apply to the non-drive side. The drive side has a fixed cup that should NOT be removed. You have to clean it and grease it from the other end. I had good luck with an old spoke bent in half and 4 layers of heavy paper towel laid over the pointy ends at the right spread to fit the cup. Be gentle so you don't poke through and scratch the cup. You could just use paper towel or cloth wrapped around a little wooden stick. It takes several passes, but cleans up great. If your bb is the newer splined cartridge type I don't think you have to do anything to it.

To remove your cassette will definitely take the Park FR5 or the equivalent Lifu which is only $4 and works on all Shimano Hyperglide cassettes. Unless you KNOW it is something else it is almost certainly Hyperglide if it is Shimano, regardless of stated model (105, Ultegra, Dura-Ace, even the mtb cassettes). You also need a sprocket remover or "chain whip" to hold the cassette while you loosen the lock ring - Park SR1 or other, like Nashbar's Sprocket Tool at half the price, about $7. That is what I have.

Me? A pro? Please don't insult the other guys you mentioned. I am just a naturally curious guy who likes to get his hands on things and figure out how to take them apart and get them back together. Everything I have described recently has been first time I've done it - hubs, bb, headset. One thing I do believe in is reading several different descriptions of how to do something and ask here if I am not clear so when I start I am pretty darn certain I know how to proceed and what little snags might arise. It has been working so far. I couldn't have done it without help from Mike, Buddy, Steve, Pat, Hunter, Oscar, Xavier and others who I hope won't be mad because their names are not coming to mind. I pass along what I have learned to you and any others I can help.

ADDED LATER: I was just looking in the Nashbar catalog getting part numbers. Their big toolkit at $59.95 might be worth looking at if you are starting from scratch. I already had plenty of metric wrenches and hex so I bought just the specific stuff I needed.

Grab that wrench and get to work!
Rainman
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Old 07-18-01 | 02:17 PM
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Thanks Rainman,

As I said in my last post, I'm getting myself into BIG trouble.
After reading your last post I went out during lunch to a bike shop that's close to work and spent $40 on tools. That's the shop where I bought my new bike 3 months ago. I go there at least once a week just to look around. I think they are starting to remember me.

Anyway wish me luck with this new adventure. I'll let you know how things work out. If I have trouble getting things to work on the bike AFTER I've worked on it, I'll send the bike to you.

Ron
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Old 07-18-01 | 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by RonH
I'm getting myself into BIG trouble.
After reading your last post I went out during lunch to a bike shop that's close to work and spent $40 on tools.
Actually Ron, that's a great investment. One minor tune up at the bike shop could cost you $40. Also, look at their hourly rates. It won't take you any time to recoup your money. Good job :thumbup:
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Old 07-18-01 | 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by riderx


Actually Ron, that's a great investment. One minor tune up at the bike shop could cost you $40. Also, look at their hourly rates. It won't take you any time to recoup your money. Good job :thumbup:
That's what I'm sayin'! Riderx, could you talk to my wife? Maybe you can explain what a great investment tools are. Bikes, too, while you are at it.

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Old 07-18-01 | 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by RainmanP


Bikes, too, while you are at it.

Rainman
Yeah, after all, what good are a lot of bike tools without bikes to use them on?
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Old 07-18-01 | 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by RainmanP


That's what I'm sayin'! Riderx, could you talk to my wife? Maybe you can explain what a great investment tools are. Bikes, too, while you are at it.

Rainman
Well, I might be able to convince her about the tools, but I still have a hard time convincing my own wife why I need several bikes!
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Old 07-18-01 | 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by riderx


Well, I might be able to convince her about the tools, but I still have a hard time convincing my own wife why I need several bikes!
That's an easy one. You are halfway there already.

If she starts questioning why you need more bikes, or worse yet, *****ING, point to the wall of tools and exclaim, "Look at that investment in tools, woman!! Are you suggesting we let that investment be waisted? It is the singlemost successful investment in our whole portfolio.

If she is really a long-nail, then tell her that tools deteriorate if they are not used. Be careful with that one, especially if you have a hammer, saw, and cleaning tools for other jobs around the house.
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Old 07-19-01 | 06:53 AM
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From: Fredrock
Originally posted by mike


That's an easy one. You are halfway there already.

If she starts questioning why you need more bikes, or worse yet, *****ING, point to the wall of tools and exclaim, "Look at that investment in tools, woman!! Are you suggesting we let that investment be waisted? It is the singlemost successful investment in our whole portfolio.

If she is really a long-nail, then tell her that tools deteriorate if they are not used. Be careful with that one, especially if you have a hammer, saw, and cleaning tools for other jobs around the house.
Fortunately, my wife understands my NEED to bike, she just doesn't understand why I need so MANY bikes. But, she doesn't give me a hard time about it, she just usually says "I don't want to know how much you spend on them". She knows that biking is cheaper than therapy! The tools are actually off of her radar screen.

Now if I could only get her to bike on a regular basis, that would be great. I've tried to convince her we need a tandem, but she won't bite. Oh well, I keep scouring the classifieds in hope of coming across an old single speed tandem someone is getting rid of for cheap.
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Old 07-19-01 | 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by riderx

The tools are actually off of her radar screen.

Now if I could only get her to bike on a regular basis, that would be great
Here is an idea to get your wives to cooperate on your tool procurement;

Encourage her to get a boyfriend. Then, fix his bike for him with your tools. They will both appreciate it and she will leave you alone to bike.

You try it first and tell the rest of us fellers how it works out.
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Old 07-19-01 | 12:09 PM
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What I actually meant by "being off the radar" was the tools are such a small and inexpensive part of my biking that she doesn't even notice or care about their purchase.

I would give up my bikes before I would give up my wife (don't shoot me guys! ), so your suggestion isn't even an option (and yes, I do know you were joking )
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Old 07-19-01 | 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by riderx
I would give up my bikes before I would give up my wife (don't shoot me guys! ), so your suggestion isn't even an option (and yes, I do know you were joking )
Oh, for goodness sakes, of course I was joking! From what I can gather, the married guys at bikeforums.com (myself included)have wonderful and understanding spouses who they love more than anyone or anything in the world.

I guess it wasn't funny.
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Old 07-19-01 | 06:05 PM
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Don't worry Mike, it was funny. :thumbup:

Since we've been completely off topic for a while, just figured I'd add this: Just got back from a great MTB ride on the single speed. Nothing like the buzz you get from a good ride.
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Old 08-02-01 | 02:44 PM
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Bikes: Lots

I wanted to chime in here!! My wife is great about the # of bikes I own and AAAAALLLLL the tools I have. The key is to buy her a bike and get her involved in cycling. If that doesn't work tell her you want to take up golfing. New set of clubs - $650.00 for a decent set: new bag - around $200.00: Oh yeah, that new carbon fiber driver that's $250.00 alone (yes for 1 stinking club): then greens fees - $25.00 to $50.00(each time); multiply that by three times a week (if you want to be good, 3 x's is a minimum); then you have to buy beers on the course; and cigars you gotta have cigars; Plus, incedentals like shoes, shorts, shirts, towels, gloves, hats, balls (you'll loose a lot initiatially),....etc.

Wow, you're actually saving money by cycling!! Tell her that!!

As far as tools, stick with Park, Pedro's or Wrench Force. They are great quality at decent prices. My plan of action is this: when I have a part that needs to be replaced, I buy the part AND the tools necessary to fix it. Sure it costs a bit more initially, but when you've paid $55.00 to have a bottom brackett replaced ($25.00 bottom bracket - $15.00 Tool) I've already saved money!!! Also, I take my latest Performance or Nashbar catalog circle the tools I need and give it to my in-laws. They never know what to give me for my Birthday or Christmas and this way I get what I need. Of course, I always end up repairing my father-in-laws bike as well.

Good luck and check out Sheldon Brown's website, I don't have the exact address. It has tips and manuals you can download. Also, the Specialized website has a chapter of manuals you can download each month.

Later Gator
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