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Old 01-25-10 | 06:51 PM
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D.G.W Hedges
 
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crank threads

I was trying to overhaul the BB on an older 80s lotus road bike, at yellow bike project in Austin TX. I didn't know that it was a square taper. I noticed some of the threads coming out, i asked a volunteer and he gave me advice but i still stripped most of the threads out without getting the crank out.

If I was in Chicago I know someone who fixes and flips bikes who would gladly help me Chase the remaining threads but as I don't know I ton of people here in Austin I'm kinda out of luck.

What i'm looking for is anyone that either knows bike shops in austin that can do this or know people mabye that could do this or any advice in general would be great.
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Old 01-25-10 | 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mrhedges
I was trying to overhaul the BB on an older 80s lotus road bike, at yellow bike project in Austin TX. I didn't know that it was a square taper. I noticed some of the threads coming out, i asked a volunteer and he gave me advice but i still stripped most of the threads out without getting the crank out.

If I was in Chicago I know someone who fixes and flips bikes who would gladly help me Chase the remaining threads but as I don't know I ton of people here in Austin I'm kinda out of luck.

What i'm looking for is anyone that either knows bike shops in austin that can do this or know people mabye that could do this or any advice in general would be great.
If a significant amount of threads are stripped out, chasing them won't do anything - you'll take the rest out when you try to extract it.
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Old 01-25-10 | 06:58 PM
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there is a very recent thread on this exact same situation. Many suggested that the crank bolt be removed and then ride the bike. The crank should work it way loose.
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Old 01-25-10 | 07:03 PM
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Isn't there a guy named Lance lives in Austin; knows something about bikes?

Seriously, are you trying to salvage the crankset? I did this once but was lucky because BB cups on both sides were loose (adjustable BB and I had stripped the crank on the fixed cup side). So I was able to use crankpuller to remove crankarm from opposite side; undo BB cups and pull crank and bottom bracket out using the still attached opposite crank arm. I managed to get the stripped arm free of the BB spindle using a vise and a hammer. I could have reinstalled cranks and rode them I think, but I didn' trust that they would stay secure, so I got new ones ultimately.
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Old 01-26-10 | 07:09 AM
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I bet that Lance guy doesn't do his own maintenance.
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Old 01-26-10 | 07:36 AM
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The right shop might have a puller that would work.
Working on the principle of a steering wheel/gear puller. Something you perhaps make or modify from one bought at an auto supply.
Or make one from scratch, like this guy did.
If the cranks are otherwise fine, there's no reason not to reuse them, once you've fixed the BB. Other than, of course, ease of removal next time you work on the BB.
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Old 01-27-10 | 02:16 PM
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thanks everyone for the advice.

I want to reuse the cranks as there is nothing wrong with them. What are all the different cotterless cranks? will someone explain this to me? I mean if i was to buy a tool which one would i get?

Lance never returns my calls, think he's a doper.
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Old 01-27-10 | 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mrhedges
I want to reuse the cranks as there is nothing wrong with them.
Correction: There wasn't anything wrong with them, and now they have stripped extractor threads. Reusing the cranks will just make your or someone else's life harder the next time they have to come off. If you're ok with that, get them off using any brute force or chance-based method already mentioned.

The only sensible way to reuse cranks that have stripped threads is to repair them, like with the Stein crank extractor system or similar from Cyclus or VAR. The Stein tool works by using a guided tap to cut larger diameter threads, and comes with a special self extractor cap that threads into them.
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Old 01-27-10 | 03:44 PM
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Bikes: I never learned to ride a bike. It is my deepest shame.

Pulling out the threads usually happens when you have not engaged the puller into enough threads, or when there is a washer hiding at the bottom of the threads stopping the puller from pushing on the bottom bracket spindle. As above, if you remove the washer and try to use the remaining threads you will just rip them out too.

Do not ride without the bolt and wait for the cranks to remove themselves - this is liable to damage the square taper and ruin the cranks.

Go to a shop with a gear puller, or buy a gear puller yourself. They cost about $10 - $20. They have arms that can pull on the back of the crank instead of the threads. THe pin of the puller pushes on the threaded stud of the spindle (nutted spindle), or on a bolt partially inserted into the spindle (bolted spindle). Good luck!
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Old 01-28-10 | 10:01 PM
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I have removed stubborn cranks with a ball joint removal tool, commonly called a pickle fork.
Any alignment shop will have one, simply place the forked end between the bottom bracket and crank arm and smack it with a hammer.
Crude, I know but it works.
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Old 01-29-10 | 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by helicomatic
Correction: There wasn't anything wrong with them, and now they have stripped extractor threads. Reusing the cranks will just make your or someone else's life harder the next time they have to come off. If you're ok with that, get them off using any brute force or chance-based method already mentioned.

The only sensible way to reuse cranks that have stripped threads is to repair them, like with the Stein crank extractor system or similar from Cyclus or VAR. The Stein tool works by using a guided tap to cut larger diameter threads, and comes with a special self extractor cap that threads into them.
Stein also makes a shop puller to fit the oversize threads, so if you have a regular LBS that is so equipped, you don't have to buy the self extractors.
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Old 01-29-10 | 07:32 PM
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i'm still confused. I Have pulled cranks before this is the only time this has happened. why didn't the crank puller at yellow bike project work?

at this point what i want to know is why the crank puller didn't work and or the correct tool to use to pull these cranks out and a place that has the right tool to recut the threads.

sorry i don't have a camera i know that would help alot, but if someone could just explain the various types of non-cottered cranks and crank pullers that could help, i only really thought there was cottered cranks, non-cottered cranks and the newer futuristic splined things.
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Old 01-29-10 | 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mrhedges
i'm still confused. I Have pulled cranks before this is the only time this has happened. why didn't the crank puller at yellow bike project work?

at this point what i want to know is why the crank puller didn't work and or the correct tool to use to pull these cranks out and a place that has the right tool to recut the threads.

sorry i don't have a camera i know that would help alot, but if someone could just explain the various types of non-cottered cranks and crank pullers that could help, i only really thought there was cottered cranks, non-cottered cranks and the newer futuristic splined things.
1) Washer present
2) Extractor not tightened by wrench
3) Wrong extractor used on cranks (not all cranks - especially old ones take the standard park extractor)

Or all 3.
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Old 01-29-10 | 07:58 PM
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THere are a couple reasons I can think of that the threads pulled out -

The first one that comes to mind is that there was a washer sitting in the place that used to be under the bolt. Without removing this washer, the puller is pushing agains the washer, which is fixed at the base of the threads, and pulling aginst the threads... since there is nowhere for the washer to go, the threads let go. This problem is usually identified by the mechanic pushing with all his might to turn the puller, but it seems that the crank is seized... the mech pushes and pushes until he feels the crank start to move, except it isnt the crank moving, it is the threads letting go.

Another possibility is that you failed to thread the puller all the way to the base of the threads - if too few threads of the crank are engaged with the threads of the puller, it is possible to pull the engaged threads out without an extrordinary force.

Lastly, the crank could be seized to the spindle. This is possible, but from my experience, less common than the forst two problems.

Of course, you will need to have the threads re-tapped to a larger size - there is not enough material left to cut threads at the original size. Many crank pullers used to have two sizes of threads (reversible). THe smaller thread size on these pullers, IIRC, was the more common modern size. I always thought the larger size was just an obsolete euro size or something, but maybe it can be used on cranks where the threads have been damaged and re-tapped. If you had such a puller I am sure any machine shop could tap the threads for you.

Others mentioned a crank pulling system above that sounds like it taps your crank to accept a larger pulley. I am not familiar with any sytem for pulling out damaged cranks, but I am sure whatever this system is it is the cat's pyjamas!
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Old 01-29-10 | 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LarDasse74
THere are a couple reasons I can think of that the threads pulled out -

The first one that comes to mind is that there was a washer sitting in the place that used to be under the bolt. Without removing this washer, the puller is pushing agains the washer, which is fixed at the base of the threads, and pulling aginst the threads... since there is nowhere for the washer to go, the threads let go. This problem is usually identified by the mechanic pushing with all his might to turn the puller, but it seems that the crank is seized... the mech pushes and pushes until he feels the crank start to move, except it isnt the crank moving, it is the threads letting go.

Another possibility is that you failed to thread the puller all the way to the base of the threads - if too few threads of the crank are engaged with the threads of the puller, it is possible to pull the engaged threads out without an extrordinary force.

Lastly, the crank could be seized to the spindle. This is possible, but from my experience, less common than the forst two problems.

Of course, you will need to have the threads re-tapped to a larger size - there is not enough material left to cut threads at the original size. Many crank pullers used to have two sizes of threads (reversible). THe smaller thread size on these pullers, IIRC, was the more common modern size. I always thought the larger size was just an obsolete euro size or something, but maybe it can be used on cranks where the threads have been damaged and re-tapped. If you had such a puller I am sure any machine shop could tap the threads for you.

Others mentioned a crank pulling system above that sounds like it taps your crank to accept a larger pulley. I am not familiar with any sytem for pulling out damaged cranks, but I am sure whatever this system is it is the cat's pyjamas!
Yup. Stein and Var make such a system. It taps a stripped extractor hole to 24x1.5mm. I have the Stein unit and it works great.
https://www.jastein.com/Html/Tools_for_Cranks.htm
Both Stein and Var make self extracting screws to fit, but I have a Stein 24x1.5 puller, so the self extractors are not neccessary unless you want to be able to remove the cranks yourself.

Last edited by Dan Burkhart; 01-29-10 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 01-31-10 | 05:29 PM
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thanks everyone!

I will probably just go to a couple bike shops and see if they can retap it with the tool mentioned.

I know i had it properly threaded on, so either it was the wrong extractor or there is a washer. perhaps i will also buy the right tool at the bike shop.
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