ahsposo 

Somebody already noted the use of compact doubles and their effectiveness with an 11 speed rear.

joejack951

Who cares how many are repeats? On a given chainring, none will repeat. Do you actually try to shift in sequence (changing chainrings and cassette cogs each shift)? I sure don't but then again I'm not too stubborn to use new technology which allows for very even spacing between gears on a given chainring.

Doohickie

"Denigrating"? I just said I didn't understand it; I didn't say it was evil. Sheesh, lighten up, Francis.

HillRider

+1. Anything after 5 cogs is a conspiracy to infuriate the OP. Appears to be working.

joejack951

You really don't understand it? Really? You can't imagine any scenario where it might be useful? Nothing?

Doohickie

Whatever....

CACycling

The automotive industry is doing the same thing although at a slower pace. Years ago, automatics were 3 speeds. Now, 6 speed automatics are getting more common. Why? More efficient use of energy over varying road conditions.

Sixty Fiver

A few years ago Sheldon Brown predicted that within the next 5 years that, in regard to anything besides performance oriented bikes, most recreational and utilitarian models would be fitted with internal gear hubs with 8 speeds as these offered all the range most people could ever want or need.

Now Shimano is offering an 11 speed IGH which has 25 % more range than the 8 speed.

His prediction seems to be coming true as more and more models are coming equipped with or offer an IGH as an option and these are even being used for off road and touring applications.

At one time most bikes were equipped with internally geared hubs with 3 and 4 speeds and these were supplanted by deraileur gears when these offered wider gear ranges... it has now it has come full circle where an IGH can offer the same range as most deraileur systems.

I am still pretty happy to run an old 3 speed hub as it offers me the gear range I need for most riding... folks who have to deal with epic climbs might want a little more but in many places of the world a steep hill merely means that you will be walking the bike.

Reynolds 

It depends. One of my bicycles is 7sp 13-21 , the other 9sp 12-23, both 52/42. I ride on flat roads, so I almost never use the 12 or 23. Even the 13 or 21 are rarely used, so 5 or 6sp would work for me. But for hilly country, I'd choose a 10sp 12-25 53/39 any day.

|3iker

I sure don't use all the cogs and the granny ring. Likely due to the fact that I try to avoid hills.

Kimmo

Obviously the OP has superhuman legs and doesn't mind going from a cadence of 110 to 80 when shifting up into a headwind.

It's a damn shame there's no such thing as a 98% efficient CVT... I turn my nose up at IGHs for the same reason.

As for half-steps, that's never gonna happen until a shorter chain pitch comes along. A 6Al4V Ti chain might be able to be shrunk down to say, 9mm pitch...

In the meantime, I spose you could opt for bigger rings and cogs.

Reynolds 

Interesting. With a 9mm pitch chain, you could have what, like 60t F/15-20t R?

Sixty Fiver

The efficiency of internal gear hubs is far better than you think... a deraileur system will be slightly more efficient until you introduce a little dirt into it or start cross chaining and then the IGH becomes a clear winner and will remain highly efficient in the worst conditions.

You can also get astounding chain life on an IGH as without any deflection it is subjected to far less wear and sheering forces.

Sixty Fiver

Shimano tried to introduce 10mm / .39 inch pitch chain in the early 80's in an effort to reduce component weight... it never caught on.

Al1943

Actually there have been many two speed automatics, Chevy Power Glide one of the better known.
Over the last few years the Germans have sold many seven speed automatics.

DinoShepherd

I have a real road bike and my C-X bike. The C-X bike is a 1x9. Same gear spread as the road bike with bigger jumps.

I find myself riding the 1x9 more. No handicap even on fast rides. I find on the road bike I am usually shifting twice anyway.

-Z

HillRider

Sure enough the Powerglide was indeed a two speed. Buick had a Dynaflow transmission that was a one-speed in normal use and relied on it's torque-converter for all "gearing". It had a manually selected low gear but it wasn't used in normal driving. These were among the poorest transmissions ever inflicted on the automotive world.

Mercedes currently has a 7-speed automatic but Toyota has one-upped them with an 8-speed in some Lexus models.

Then there are the continuously variable transmissions that Ford, Nissan and several others use and these have an invifite number of "gears".

strop

The truth is that we need more gears because we're getting bigger and heavier. As a 20 year old I used to ride a 53/44 on the front with a 12-18 straight up cluster on the rear so every gear was one tooth bigger or smaller than it's neighbour. Now I find that I need a 53/39 with a 12-25 on the rear or I can't get up the steep hills. As someone said, if we were all superhuman we'd only need six or seven speeds maximum. My father rode a single speed bike with a hub brake and he lived on what I would consider a pretty steep hill, we are definitely the weaker generation ;-)

Kimmo

I was under the impression frictional losses in IGHs are in the order of around 16%.

O_o

Far out. Bummer...

Maybe they should give it another crack. With a 42t front ring, I find the jump between 16t and 15t a bit much sometimes...

Sixty Fiver

The Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub is one of the most efficient drives ever made and when it is properly lubricated and run in will have drive a drive efficiency of 97% in high which exceeds most derailer equipped bikes.

Sachs has reported their 3 speed drives to be 94% efficient in low which is only a 6% loss.

As you add more gears to an IGH they lose a little efficiency although this is offset by higher durability and there's another thing I forget to mention... you get a much stronger wheel when you have no dish and shorter spokes.

With lower speed IGH drives you have very high drive efficiency but this can impact the efficiency of the rider as the jumps between gears are between 33 and 36 %.

The new Shimano 11 speed is oil lubricated which should increase the hub's efficiency a good deal... not that the 8 speed is bad.

The Nuvinci CVT is probably the way to go for anyone who can't deal with a one tooth jump as a constantly variable drive has a seamless gearing transition but suffers in that it weighs 8 pounds.

hairnet

I ride fixed a lot and I get it, I also used to ride a 6 speed. My 9 speed right now feels so nice in comparison to the 6 speed

Kimmo

Gee, that's not so bad at all... but close ratios and IGHs seem mutually exclusive...

Now that's seriously nifty.

Hopefully future generations of the design can be made dramatically more compact... does it really need to cope with 130Nm? That's as much torque as a small four-cylinder makes! I'm down for one as soon as it starts approaching a kilo...

But having spotted this browsing around, I'm more interested in the SIVAT. It has a feedback loop so your controller would just be for desired cadence, and the prototype is already more compact than the NuVinci.

Someone should throw that poor Simkins bloke some $$ already.

noglider 

It's not true that humans have a narrow power band. It's really wider than a car's. You can start up in top gear without a slipping clutch. It's just not fun on a bike. With a car, it's not possible.

We do have a lower power-to-weight ratio than cars, though. That's why we want more gears than a car has.

Having more gears does not give you a higher high or a lower low. These are possible with a 2x5 setup. The advantage of more gears is that they're spaced more closely. This is pleasant, but it's not necessary. I've been riding a 12-speed bike (2x6) for a long time. I recently built up a 27-speed bike (2x9) so it has more gears than I'm used to. It's terribly pleasant, but if I were forced to go back, it wouldn't be a big deal for me.

noglider 

Oh, and I am annoyed at the trend of adding more and more. It makes drivetrains less durable, and upgrading is impossible or prohibitively expensive. So is just keeping something going!

For all the true advantages a freehub offers, I still like my bikes with freewheels.

Juha

Regarding evenly spaced gears, I have the oldish 3x8 setup in my hybrid. When commuting, I find myself sticking to the middle front ring, and running through rear gears as needed. If I'm touring, I use the small front ring more, but even then I prefer staying mostly on the same front gear. On flat road, with heavy load / trailer and headwind, I may monkey around with front/rear gear combinations to find one that best suits my speed. My winter bike may have had its big front ring used once cirka 2007.

How many would actually run through the various front-rear combinations to stay on the most effective or evenly spaced "path" when accelerating, for example? For me, the front gears serve to provide occasionally much needed extension in the very high or very low end. It seems I don't need more than 7-8 gears (if even that) in the cassette, but it might be nice. I'm sure the 14-gear Rohloff with even spacing would be even nicer in that regard.

--J