Removing Italian Thread Fixed Cup
 

I recently picked up an circal 85 Italian bike - Casati. I believe it's BB is Italian thread. I happen to have an external berring set thats Italian that I'm planning to install. Could anyone tell me if the fixed cup removes clockwise like an English thread fixed up?

I tried the search function but it doesn't seem to work as well as it did a few months ago.

No, Italian bottom brackets are right-hand threaded for both cups so both sided remove by turning them counterclockwise.

Be sure to install the drive-side (fixed) cup very tightly and to full recommended torque. Otherwise they tend to unthread themselves under pedaling forces. Installed properly, they are fine but do it correctly.

Thanks, it was right-hand threaded and came out with a bit of persuasion. Now I have to figure out if the headset has odd threads. I guess removing the fork and trying threading an ISO headset would be the easiest test. Would markings on the Campy headset give a hint?

An '85 Casati will have an Italian headset, most likely. They're interchangeable with British/ISO headsets, so it's not really something to worry about.

Many Italian bikes are supplied with English BBs.

Meaning the right cup is LH thread. The safe way is to remove the left cup first since they're always RH thread, and use that to determine whether the BB is Italian or English, which will tell you which way the right cup will be threaded.

If you have a caliper, Italian cups are 36mm across the thread crests, while English are slightly smaller than 35mm.

Correct, but I don't think that was the case in 1985 even though it is now. As the OP notes, he really does have an Italian threaded bb.

Italian threads go the same direction as French threads. I know you've worked on French bikes. I bought one from you.

I don't doubt that the OP has an Italian threaded BB, but in his words he believes its Italian threaded. I posted warning of the possibility of BSC threading, because I've seen too many people incorrectly assume Italian frames are 36x24 RH threaded and work amazingly hard tightening cups they wanted to remove.

I'm of the "measure twice, cut once" school so offered a "safe" way to be sure of what people were dealing with. All left cups have RH threads, so if there's the least possible doubt, at least that's reliable.

BTW- nothing is safe. I once had the "pleasant" surprise of removing an Italian threaded BB from a British built bike. Go figure!!

Good point and I definitely agree with the "measure twice, cut once" concept. Certainly most newer Italian frames are English threaded.

I assume the British bike with the Italian bottom bracket you came across had originally been English threaded but somehow the threads had been damaged and it was reamed and retapped to Italian. That was a fairly common salvage technique.

Christs sake, why doesn't the OP just measure the shell width so we can end this debate with 95% certainty?

I think we're well past that and by now he's probably removed the cup and replaced the BB. However, if he hasn't there's a catch 22. Both Italian threaded and BSC BB shells from the same maker have the same exterior dimensions, so you can't just measure the shell unless you measure it from the inside by which time you already know.

Or even look at the cups and see if the threading is marked.

And, just for fun, my Mariposa rando bike built right here in Canada has Italian threading and a 70 mm shell. I think I asked for it to be built that way, back in 1994, but I can't remember for sure, and I don't know why I would have, except that maybe I wanted to be able to swap BBs with my Pinarello, if that makes any sense but I don't think it does. Still, the customer is always right, right? So if my widow ever sells it to one of you, pause before you wrench.

No they don't. Italian shells are 2 millimeters wider.

So are Italian spindles the same dimension as BSC? I'm been messing around with this Tomasso and it seems to me like the non-drive cup goes a couple mm farther into the shell than on my BSC bikes, leaving not a whole lot of thread for the lock ring to grab onto. I just pulled a spindle of the correct overall width from another BB I had in the bin, never bothered to measure the interior dimensions.

While the spindle doesn't care what the threads are, it does care about botton bracket width, and the thickness of the cups outer wall. Standard Italian BBs are 70mm vs. the 68mm of English. Spindles for Italian BBs are therefore 2mm wider between the bearing race areas than those for English. If you use the wrong spindle the left cup will end up either too far in or out depending.

I mentioned the cup wall thickness, because that changes brand to brand, and sometimes with the same brand. In the Campagnolo world, original Record spindles aren't compatible with Nouvo Record and those that came later for example, because of a change in the cup wall moving the bearings inboard a bit.

You back pedal well.

Sure.

But removing the left side is sufficient to measure the shell diameter, which tells you what the right side is.

Operator, You and I are on the same page here. It's exactly what I said early on in this thread, (reproduced below).

Many Italian bikes are supplied with English BBs.

Meaning the right cup is LH thread. The safe way is to remove the left cup first since they're always RH thread, and use that to determine whether the BB is Italian or English, which will tell you which way the right cup will be threaded.

If you have a caliper, Italian cups are 36mm across the thread crests, while English are slightly smaller than 35mm.

Thanks for the spindle help.

I'll remember to remove the left side adjustable cup first next time and check for markings and/or measure. This time the fixed cup turned out to be Italian left-hand threaded.
On the fork threading [after getting the stuck stem removed] the sample ISO headset I had fit so I ordered the ISO silver veloorange version.

Thanks for everyone's help.

********** Italian fixed cups are right-hand threaded.

I hope this was a typo, or maybe he meant Italian made, with LH (British) thread.

Italian fixed cups are right-hand threaded, just like Hillrider said.

My, my. That's... shall we say... "unique?"

Any chance of getting a picture of that cup?