Spoke Compound
 

So I was checking the tension of the spokes on my front wheel this morning and thought they all felt pretty loose. I pulled out the Park Tension Meter and sure enough, 75% of the spokes were at 20 and needed to be 22 (DT Comp sokes 2.0/1.8 so 22 ~ 110 kgf).

I was pretty surprised at this because just 2 months ago I did a very thorough true on the front wheel. I thought I had finally figured out this wheel building thing. So, I start going around putting a little more tension on all of the spokes and start to think to myself "wtf, I think the spokes are just twisting and not tightening". I tried to loosen one of the spokes before tightening it and SNAP!, the nipple broke.

Now the reason I had trued my front wheel 2 months ago was because I found a snapped nipple. I started to think "I wonder if the LBS gave me Aluminum nipples instead of Brass. Maybe that's why I keep snapping them". I take off of my tire/tube/rim strip and replace the broken nipple and start the truing process. It's then that I realize my LBS had put purple (?? i think it was purple...) loctite on the spoke threads, so they wouldn't 'shake loose'.

I think i've learned my lesson as to why not put loctite on spokes. I think when I trued the wheel 2 months ago I just wound up all of the spoke rather than turning the threads. So even if I had done a perfect true, it'd just wind out within a ride or two. It seems so ridiculous to use loctite on threads. If you're ABSOLUTELY sure you can nail the truing process on the very first try, I guess it could be an OK idea. But an awful idea in every other circumstance.

TL;DR - loctite is a bad idea on spokes, I need to get some lube.

I just want a nice slick spoke lube, can I use anti-seize? or regular teflon grease?

You want a fairly stiff grease or anti-seize compound for spokes. It does three jobs. It lubes when turning nipples to reduce spoke twist, it weatherseals to prevent corrosion, so your wheel will still be serviceable 2 years from now, and it's sticky enough to provide traction so nipples don't loosen if slack, which they shouldn't ever be anyway.

Seems like the first 2 are the more important parts, right? The third is convenient, but not required? I'm a little more than upset at the LBS right now.

I almost want to get new spokes and nipples, but I think i'm ok just reusing the spokes and replacing the broken ones (if all this stress leads to some breaking) later on as I go.

Compounds are unnecessary unless you are dealing with a rim defect that negates the ability to tension 1-2 spokes.

Sounds like you ran out of threads before proper tensioning could be achieved - or the threads weren't lubed to begin with or both.

Long as proper tension is achieved - it'll hold.

All too often, compounds, "glues", loc-whatevers, are used by wheelbuilders to hide their poor tensioning skills just long enough to blame the spokes when they do eventually break.

Phil Tenacious oil for example will do just fine for lubing spoke threads - even Park grease will do fine as well.

=8-)

Yep, not lubed to begin with. Like I said in OP, they had loctite on them.

That's what I've read before, I guess i'm a believer now ;)

There's a lot of voodoo in wheel building. More than most areas of bike service. A number of wheelbuilders (using the term only in the most literal sense here) have started using locktite on nipples apply the same theory as your guy. Problem is that if a wheel ever gets to the state where it'll make a difference the battle had already been lost long ago.

A spoke nipple is nothing more than a nut, and the basic rules of threaded fasteners apply. Tension provides the tension that keeps them from unscrewing, and I'd no more expect my spoke nipples to magically loosen (opinion for what it's worth) than I would the lug nuts on my car.

I now use an anti corrosive paste grease on my nipples because my bikes get lots of weather exposure, including road and sea salt. Before that I used light oil for for 30 years. Never had wheels loosen, nor had corrosion issues.

BTW- except for certain unique situations, and certain modern components that may specify it, I don't think there's need to use any threadlockers on bikes. They've become overused, but to me threadlocker to a bike mechanic is like wood putty to a cabinet maker. A short cut to correct for work that isn't done right.

You lube spoke threads and the nipple I use vasoline. Spokes should stay put as others have said and the lube prevents spoke winding up as tension increases. Vasoline is a good lube for a bike in a number of instances.

Couldn't agree more.....

Except loctite on the screws holding cleats into shoes, those come loose all the time for some reason.

Another "politics and religion" thread. I never stop being surprised at how strongly different posters, even people whom I respect, cling to mutually exclusive opinions.

FWIW (and will probably get flamed again for this one), I use Wheelsmith Spoke Prep on threads. It has the reputation to resist nipples from backing out, but as others have said, that's a non-issue for a good wheel build. Rather I've found it to be extremely helpful as a lubricant, both for tensioning the wheel on the initial build and for truing years down the road. I've used it on all my wheel builds and have come out great. If adjustments are needed 4 years later, its still super easy to work on.

I use a thread dope meant for stainless tubing. It lubricates and does not set up hard.
On a rear wheel that had 100kg tension on the drive side I had the spoke nipples unwind when the rear wheel was highly loaded( I weighed 190 and the saddle bags had about 40lbs. of gear in them).
After that I began using the thread compound instead of oil oir grease.

They come loose because the sole is a compressible material. A very good reason NOT to use loctite in that application.

Over the years I've gravitated from nothing to linseed oil to Wheelsmith Spoke Prep and now bee's wax. A year ago I disassembled a 2 year old wheelset that I had built using bee's wax and I was very favorably impressed at how evenly and smoothly the nipples loosened with medium torque.

I'm confused, do tell more. A nice CF sole isn't too compressible, is it? And wouldn't it be the metal that's embedded into the CF that's really holding the screws, are those compressible? Why does compressible even matter?

I apply a little grease to nipples, spokes, and around the holes on the rim. Stick to brass nipples. Never had any problem with nipples working loose.

You'll know that you're getting close to "adequate" tension when 90% of the spokes emit a shuddering noise (drive side only when working with dished wheel) when you attempt to turn the nipple. This binding can also be felt at the spoke wrench. Novice builders should not apply more than an additional 1/2 turn all the way around the wheel. Note that this rule applies to clean nipples, spokes, and rim that have a thin coat of grease at the mating surfaces.

Locktite would still be a dumb idea because you'd have problems making the wheel rideable when you bent the rim and wanted to get home.

Yes. I use anti-seize on the spoke threads and have had no problems removing and reusing alloy nipples when I replace rims up to 14 years later.

Locktite on cleat bolts may not be a good ideal as Locktite can attack some types of plastics, specially ABS. which literally crumbles to pieces if it gets a whiff of the treadlock compound. Many motorcyclist had found out the hard way after putting Locktight in areas near their ABS plastic fairings.

Chombi

I use beeswax as well, and have great results with it. I guess we're old-school wheelbuilders.

Without regard to whether loctite should be used or not - it sounds like your problem was alloy nipples that corroded. It does not make sense that a brass nipple would snap when truing, they would have rounded off. OTOH, I've broken a number of alloy nipples while riding, then more as i was replacing them.

I agree, they make products for this purpose so why not use them. Why do so many people think they know more then the manufactures who make this stuff.

This is speculation on my part, if the original higher pressures were measured without the tire and tube mounted and inflated and then if the reduced pressures measured with the tire and tube mounted and inflated, the difference in air pressure could account for a significant amount of spoke tension reduction. A final truing, tensioning, and dishing should be done with the tire and tube mounted and inflated.

I don't normally use Locktite on spoke threads but I have experimented with it. From my experiences blue Locktite will not cause a spoke nipple to seizee to a spoke. Purple Locktite is weaker than blue Locktite. Perhaps red Locktite was used on the spokes in question. I think blue Locktite is more of a lubricant than a cement and has a similar effect as Spoke Prep which I have used on occasion.

I use DT Swiss aluminum alloy nipples for many years and use them exclusively on my personal wheels. I suspect that the OP's aluminum nipples were possibly poor quality alloy, corroded by salt water, or damaged by using a poor fitting spoke wrench. I've been building wheels for more than 10 years and have never had a nipple failure.

Teachers lesson plans have overt and covert goals and objectives. Politicians legal and political maneuvers have overt and covert goals and objectives. Marketers have overt and covert goals in their product placement and advertisements.

Spoke Prep Overt = Lube and Anti-Seize
Spoke Prep Covert = Hide Poor Tensioning Skills Long Enough to Escape Blame

Now read very carefully the following:

Doesn't matter whether I agree or not. Point is - both angles sell - which is hard to do for any one product. The product moves - the manufacturer is successful and makes money. As always, and with any product - it is "buyers beware".

More importantly, I'll admit - even though I don't agree with the existence of the product - that the marketer saw the opportunity before I, analyzed it before I, and executed on it before I.

In many ways, that marketer was smarter than I.

In our free capitalist society, score one for the marketer.

=8-)

I'll just say, I used to used WheelSmith Spoke Prep, until DT unveiled their ProLock nipples.

Why? I am not a hobbyist, nor a builder willing to fuss over wheels after they're built. Often, I am sending my wheels to other parts of the world, so I will likely never ever see such a wheel again. Because of that, I leave nothing to chance. I use spoke washers where required as well. Bottom line is if you need some substance to keep a poorly built wheel from falling apart, you are doing it wrong. However, if you are using them as a failsafe for a wheel that would be fine without, then use whatever you want. Even though I offer a truing and spoke breakage warranty for the usable life of the rim, I seldom-really seldom ever see a wheel come back for tweaks of any kind. Even slightly flatspotted wheels won't get worse because even if one spoke is detensioned by the dent, it can't unscrew itself further, neither can its neighbors.

Anybody still use linseed oil?

Probably. I stopped decades ago because I found stuff I liked better.