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Old 03-25-11, 02:08 PM   #1
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Suntour Barcons on 9 speed?

I was thinking that vintage Suntour Barcons can run on a modern 9 speed system. It would have to be run as friction though right? I sure hope so. or I'll be
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Old 03-25-11, 02:21 PM   #2
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It will almost definitely work. The only problem that I can think of would be if you are trying to use a Sram 1:1 mtb derailleur as they require a lot of cable pull and might behave a little funny with a standard shifter.

Any other derailleur will work perfectly with your friction shifters.
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Old 03-25-11, 02:25 PM   #3
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If you measure most cassettes the difference between the first and last chainring will be similar, it's the spacers between the rings that vary. My 8spd ultegra was about the same as my 10spd DA.
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Old 03-25-11, 02:43 PM   #4
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getting #9 in a space for 8, thins out the gap between cogs.

Hyperglide tooth profiles are eager to shift early.

Even wide spaced 6 speeds are willing to jump,
with the side of the cog shift ramps lifting the chain quite readily.

I liked older freewheel tooth profile for friction shifting ,
because the chain stayed put, until moved off with a slight overshift
and pull back to re center the pulley over the cog.
but the designers dropped that .

I'm using the IG hub drivetrain bikes most these days..

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-25-11 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 03-25-11, 02:55 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by fas2c View Post
I was thinking that vintage Suntour Barcons can run on a modern 9 speed system. It would have to be run as friction though right? I sure hope so. or I'll be
OK- assuming they're indexing Barcons and not older Power Ratchet Barcons, they're designed to pull a derailleur across a 7-speed freewheel, which is 32.4mm* from first to last cog. A 9-speed cassette is 36.5mm* , so your arrangement will need to move the derailleur an additional 4mm, plus whatever wiggle room is needed to make the shift. In other words, it might work, it might not. I think it'll work- in friction mode.

*reference: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
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Old 03-25-11, 04:07 PM   #6
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Well that is good news if it does. It is shifting an Ultegra cassette with Shimano 105 RD.
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Old 03-25-11, 07:46 PM   #7
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I'm shifting a old Deore deer head derailliuer with vintage '84 SunTour ratchet barcons on a Shimano 9 speed cassette, works great!
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Old 03-25-11, 08:30 PM   #8
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I'm shifting a old Deore deer head derailliuer with vintage '84 SunTour ratchet barcons on a Shimano 9 speed cassette, works great!
That is great to know! Very good, makes me happy Was it hard to tweak or was it pretty easy?
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Old 03-25-11, 08:43 PM   #9
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I adjusted the limited screws just like any set up. Plenty-o-throw, plenty-o-pull, takes a bit of a deft hand. I'm not racing crits or sucking wheels so it works fine for me. Gets my retro on with lots gears for cheap. (Tiagra clusters rule!)
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Old 03-25-11, 09:16 PM   #10
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Right On! That is what I wanted to hear! I'm excited
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Old 03-27-11, 08:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
getting #9 in a space for 8, thins out the gap between cogs.

Hyperglide tooth profiles are eager to shift early.

Even wide spaced 6 speeds are willing to jump,
with the side of the cog shift ramps lifting the chain quite readily.

I liked older freewheel tooth profile for friction shifting ,
because the chain stayed put, until moved off with a slight overshift
and pull back to re center the pulley over the cog.
but the designers dropped that .

I'm using the IG hub drivetrain bikes most these days..
They dropped that because it won't work with indexed shifting. Index derailers must shift early. I detest Campy NR/SR because of that late shifting and readjustment after every shift, but some oldtimers like it because they're used to it. I'm an oldtimer, but I never got used to it. I find it especially annoying with Barcons.
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Old 03-27-11, 01:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
I adjusted the limited screws just like any set up. Plenty-o-throw, plenty-o-pull, takes a bit of a deft hand. I'm not racing crits or sucking wheels so it works fine for me. Gets my retro on with lots gears for cheap. (Tiagra clusters rule!)
I've seen some set ups where the barcons won't pull through the 9 speeds and some where they barely make it to 10 with limit screws all the way out. I guess it depends on shifter/derailleur combo. I've heard a lot of people say that friction shifting on >8 speed clusters gets a little twitchy. A few have said that it's actually really nice because the chain is less likely to sit inbetween 2 gears. Something to keep in mind.
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Old 03-27-11, 06:37 PM   #13
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I've seen some set ups where the barcons won't pull through the 9 speeds and some where they barely make it to 10 with limit screws all the way out. I guess it depends on shifter/derailleur combo. I've heard a lot of people say that friction shifting on >8 speed clusters gets a little twitchy. A few have said that it's actually really nice because the chain is less likely to sit inbetween 2 gears. Something to keep in mind.
Do recall that plenty of bikes come stock with bar end shifters (with friction modes) and 9 speed clusters and have no trouble. In fact, every bar end shifter made (Except the new 10 speeds, or so I've heard) have a friction mode, that should say enough.
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Old 03-28-11, 06:30 AM   #14
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Do recall that plenty of bikes come stock with bar end shifters (with friction modes) and 9 speed clusters and have no trouble. In fact, every bar end shifter made (Except the new 10 speeds, or so I've heard) have a friction mode, that should say enough.
Yes, but we are also talking about Barcons (, SunTour), which pre-date friction/index combo bar end shifters to the extent of 5 speed clusters, so it isn't that obvious. They don't seem to pull as much as more modern shifters, so it is something to watch out for.
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Old 03-28-11, 07:26 AM   #15
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I have an old pair of Barcons (power ratchets) driving a 7 speed cassette with no problems and a lot of extra travel. I will be trying a 9 speed cassette eventually.
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Old 10-18-17, 06:21 PM   #16
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Bumping this old thread:
Does anyone else have actual experience with this combo (suntour power ratchet barcons + shimano 9 speed cassettes)?

Sounds like at least one person in this thread says it worked for them.
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Old 10-18-17, 09:36 PM   #17
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Bumping this old thread:
Does anyone else have actual experience with this combo (suntour power ratchet barcons + shimano 9 speed cassettes)?

Sounds like at least one person in this thread says it worked for them.
don't be such a whimp... it works.
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Old 10-19-17, 07:23 AM   #18
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I had Suntour Barcons on a 7. For 9spd I tried the Microsoft bar ends as I wanted indexing on a gravel bike. Back indexes perfectly, shifts great. Front (x3) is just friction and easy to trim. Nice shifters, no complaints. Around $50 new, I paid half that used.
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Old 10-19-17, 11:41 AM   #19
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why not use either the shimano or the microshift indexed (unless you have the suntour in hand) I put a set of the durace 9speed on a bike and it was the easiest indexing shifter set up I have ever done.... (found out I didn't like bar ends after all but that is another story)
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Old 10-21-17, 10:04 AM   #20
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Yes, but we are also talking about Barcons (, SunTour), which pre-date friction/index combo bar end shifters to the extent of 5 speed clusters, so it isn't that obvious. They don't seem to pull as much as more modern shifters, so it is something to watch out for.
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I have an old pair of Barcons (power ratchets) driving a 7 speed cassette with no problems and a lot of extra travel. I will be trying a 9 speed cassette eventually.
I've had a set of old style SunTour friction bar ends on my retro grouch bike for maybe 15 years. 9-speed cassette, Shimano 105 (I think) derailleur. Cable pull is definitely adequate, I have no idea how much "extra" cable pull is available.
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Old 10-21-17, 10:30 AM   #21
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Just one more data point. I had a set of old style Barcons on a ten-speed Campy rear end and could pull only 7 gears consistently (perhaps 8, it was a while ago.) I replaced the rear shifter with a Campagnolo indexed bar control later.
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