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wheelbuilding question

Old 04-11-11, 03:02 PM
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polarcreamsoda
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wheelbuilding question

gonna try building my first set of wheels soon and i had a couple questions regarding spoke lengths, gauges, nipples and ****.

what length and gauge spoke should i use for a radially laced front wheel? Does the same length work for a 3x rear wheel?

Whats the difference between having a single butted, double butted and triple butted?

cheap places to buy black spokes and nipples?

im gonna be building these wheels with a velocity/IRO fusion rim and probably formula hubs if this has anything to do with it.

THANKS YO
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Old 04-11-11, 03:23 PM
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1. Use an online spoke calculator but I think you need long spokes for 3 cross.

2. Gauge is up to you, if you're big pimpin then spend your cheese on some triple butted spokes.

3. Weight and strength. Moar to read here.
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Old 04-11-11, 03:36 PM
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fo sho. didnt know there were online calculators for this.

ill check those out. thanks brah
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Old 04-11-11, 03:38 PM
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Run your spoke calculations and use Wheelsmith or DT butted 2.0 / 1.8 spokes and call it a day... if you want to save a little and don't mind a little more weight straight gauge 2mm stainless DT / Wheelsmith will also build up a nice wheel that will be a touch stiffer and a little more bombproof.

Using straight gauge spokes will save you about $18.00 and come with nipples while you will also pay a premium for alloy nipples.

On nipples...

Use brass nipples... they are stronger and less likely to round out or corrode and if you have to use alloy nipples make sure you use spoke prep to prevent seizing.

Brass will also make the first build easier as they will forgive you more.
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Old 04-11-11, 03:50 PM
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I've used the spokecalc spreadsheet (linked in the Sheldon Brown page) for several wheel builds with success. - the built-in hub/rim database seems a little dated, so be sure you can find/measure and verify the various input parameters.
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Old 04-11-11, 04:14 PM
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yeah these measurements are confusing the hell out of me. I dont have the hubs in hand so its kinda hard researching dimensions. Anyone have measurements for formula high flange hubs along with the velocity fusion rims?

also, i thought that building my own wheels was gonna save me some money but turns out it might actually cost about the same. =/
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Old 04-11-11, 04:31 PM
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Don't discount the cost of "experience."

"Give a man a wheel, he'll roll for a day. Teach a man to build a wheel, he'll roll forever."
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Old 04-11-11, 04:35 PM
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http://www.mrrabbit.net/wheelsbyflemingapplications.php

Grab the spreadsheet...open in Excel or OpenOffice Calc

Everything you listed is in there...

=8-)
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Old 04-11-11, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by polarcreamsoda View Post
gonna try building my first set of wheels soon and i had a couple questions regarding spoke lengths, gauges, nipples and ****.

what length
Whatever your rim and hub measurements dictate.

The spocalc.xls spreadsheet and DT Swiss website calculators are convenient

and gauge spoke should i use for a radially laced front wheel?
Whatever butted spoke you want with 2.0mm elbows. 2.0/1.8mm aka 15/14 gauge are the best all-around choice for durability and ease building. DT Swiss have reasonable length elbows for good support and a nice smooth transition between thick and thin sections. You won't make a real performance difference with thinner/more expensive round spokes but can have bragging rights.

1.8mm elbows are more than strong enough although modern hubs have 2.5mm holes to clear the 2.3mm threads on 2.0mm spokes which can leave part of the bent elbow both unsupported and in a position which can't be stress relieved thus causing fatigue failures until you respoke with heavier gauge spokes.

2.0mm straight gauge (one thickness) (DT Champion) - least expensive, easiest to build with, heaviest, less durable than a double butted spoke because the stress is concentrated in the elbows and threads. With double butted spokes generally lasting until you can't buy rims with the same ERD, 2.0/1.8mm still easy to build with, and the price difference about $.20 a spoke I wouldn't make this choice.

2.0/1.8mm double butted (the ends are 2.0mm, the middles 1.8mm) (DT Competition) - a little more expensive, a little more windup, a little lighter, and more durable since the stress is concentrated in the straight section.

2.0/1.7mm/1.8mm triple butted (elbows are 2.0mm, middles 1.7mm, and threads 1.8mm) (DT Super Comp) - much more expensive and lighter still. They might make sense for the drive side of a rear wheel with 24 or fewer spokes for a heavy rider who wants to pay for light but wouldn't like the stiffness from a thinner spoke but otherwise seem to be an answer in search of a problem.

2.0/1.5mm double butted (DT Revolution) - costs the same as 2.0/1.8 butted, lighter still, about half the torsional rigidity as a 2.0/1.8mm spoke so windup is an issue when building, strong enough. A good idea for non-drive side spokes on rear wheels with soft/light rims (Stans Alpha 340) that won't tolerate high drive-side tension especially on hubs with a steep drive side bracing angle (like Powertap) but you'd be smarter to avoid those configurations in the first place. May have unacceptable lateral stiffness when used on the drive side in low (24 and less) spoke count rear wheels for heavier riders. Garmin wheel magnets don't stay parked as well as on a 2.0/1.8mm spoke.

2.3/0.9mm aero (DT Aerolite) - 4-5X as expensive as a round spoke, looks cool, may save 5-10W at speed, fits through round hub holes since the flat portion is the same width as the spoke threads. They start life as 2.0/1.5mm spokes and therefore have the same issues with lateral stiffness.

cheap places to buy black spokes and nipples?
These guys have good prices, a spoke cutter, and no additional charge for odd lengths

http://store.icyclesusa.com/competition-c2613.aspx

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 04-11-11 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 04-11-11, 04:55 PM
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thanks alot guys. i calculated the spoke lengths out to be 264.6 for the front if i wanted to go with the radially laced rim and 285.1 in the rear for 3x. Do i get a spoke cutter and cut them to exactly those measurements or do i round up and down to the next size?

now, next challenge is finding decent spokes and nipples for CHEAP. breaking the budget for my 2011 mods already.
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Old 04-11-11, 05:02 PM
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265.00
285.00

Buy boxed/bagged spokes and 12mm nipples - Sapim, Phil, Wheelsmith, etc...no need for a cutter/threader.

The list of places to buy online are endless...

=8-)
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Disclaimer:

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2. I like anyone will comment in other areas.
3. I do not own the preexisting concepts of DISH and ERD.
4. I will provide information as I always have to others that I believe will help them protect themselves from unscrupulous mechanics.
5. My all time favorite book is:

Kahane, Howard. Logic and Contemporary Rhetoric: The Use of Reason in Everyday Life
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Old 04-11-11, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
Use brass nipples... they are stronger and less likely to round out or corrode and if you have to use alloy nipples make sure you use spoke prep to prevent seizing.
Alloy nipples are fine provided the spokes are long enough. I've been using the same alloy nipples for the last ~15 years on one wheel set with one front rim replacement and at least two rears except for four I twisted with an incompletely seated spoke wrench getting a rim straight enough to ride home after bending it.

Anti-seize on the spoke threads will keep them turning for when you eventually wear out or bend the rim. An acid brush with the bristles cut down works. Lubrication of the spoke/rim interface is also necessary.

Any sort of spoke-prep which gets tacky to keep nipples from turning when the spokes aren't tight enough is a crutch for bad wheel building and going to do more harm than good with thin spokes.
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