HillRider

A lot of what you claim is based on undemanding riders on very modest terrain doing low mileage. Any department store bike will work adequately on flat Rail-Trails or neighborhood streets with no demand for fast, reliable shifting or hard use of the brakes.

dabac

But a lot more than another $500 car. Sure, that one may blow the tranny next week, but who knows what the 500-repaired-for-2500 will come up with in that time? Maybe you fail a MOT due to rust? or to the cats going out or....
It's a gamble either way, and the car vs bike comparison don't hold up very well. With a new BSO, you know where you're starting. with a $500 car, it's an indetermined state.

3alarmer 

I personally prefer to look at this issue in terms of reliablity,
serviceability (i.e. can it be repaired and how long will parts
be available to do so), and functional performance (does it
do the job for which it is intended).

So by my standards (summed up as product design life cycle)
a lot of the newer high end stuff like Di 2 is pretty questionable,
as are almost all the ___mart bikes.

I look at a bike and ask myself, "How long will this be around,
and how useful will it be during that time period?"

But I am both old and odd.

BikeWise1

Designed to be useful, durable and repairable with a long life (10+ years) expectancy, it's a "real" bike.

Designed to be disposable, made with a quality level intended to get the bike out the door and through a few rides before it begins to self-destruct, one size fits all, and no support after the sale whatsoever.......that's your BSO.

Real bikes don't have to cost much, either. I'd rather have/work on a 10 year old real bike than a brand new BSO any day.

Boyd Reynolds

I think I agree with this way to make the distinction, at least for myself. Many classes of product can be looked at this way, not just bikes.

Some things were made to be used, other things were made to be sold.

However, if the goal is for a new or inexperienced rider to be able to tell what is worth his/her money, it's not very helpful by itself. For this purpose I think the best way is to ask who assembled the bike. If it was assembled by a mechanic your chances of getting a bike worth owning are good. Otherwise, not. Note that this allows for department store bikes that are reassembled by a mechanic after purchase.

BikeWise1

I agree with much of this, but sadly, these days, even the hand of pro wrench can't make up for the inherent deficiencies in most sub-$200 department store bikes.

I've been at this for 30 years and have never seen such abysmal quality.

Consumer Reports says, after testing a number of bikes from various sources, "if you care about value, don't spend less than $400, and don't buy it anywhere but a bike shop".

Black wallnut 

I am buying this logic and here is why. A year and half ago I purchased my Schwinn Broadway @ Costco for $200 thinking at the time that if it allwoed me to get some exercise and lose a bit a weight it would be a value purchase. Spent the first year, spring, summer and early fall doing almost daily rides up to 6 miles without any issues but never hard or fast. Started riding again in March with about the same program. Soon started streaching the distance and effort. End of March changed phones and started using RunKeeper app to track my fitness. Best thing I have ever done as an adult. Then I popped my first spoke. Had the LBS replace that one spoke and true the wheel for what I considered a reasonable charge. I've always done my own wrenching, as a youth I attempted truing wheels a few times and it just is not cost effective for me to spend my time doing this.

Shortly thereafter broke another spoke. LBS owner, great guy btw, explained that my wheel was just worn out and suggested replacement. Tire was nearing bald so I hade that changed as well. Come to find out needed a cassette upgrade as well; total cost of repair was a bit over $100. Couple of weeks later popped my first front spoke. Off to the LBS I go and get a new wheel and tire to match the rear, another $90. A month or two later kept hearing noise that seemed to be coming from the BB. While attempting to remove the DS crank using a shadetree puller set up damaged the small chainring. This repair only cost me $40 for parts and I do not recall how much for the labor.

Sometime after that a windstorm (normal part of life where I live) blew my bike over and tore the front of my seat. Wanted a different shape anyway so replaced that for $55. Then added two water bottle cages, another $20. Got a flat on my way home, actually had the factory tube fail near the stem (the other one did so before) so then purchased two tubes and a frame pump; I think even with a LBS purchased bike this would/ should be an expense.

Then the day came when I pooped a spoke on my newish rear wheel. Limped to the LBS. They admitted to selling me an economy wheelset when they should have sold me a much more expensive durable one. Good thing is they would credit me the cost of the cheap one. One week later my bike is wearing a Velocity Dyad wheel, I'm not snobbish enough to recall what hub and spokes but the LBS sales price totalled $140, before credit for money already spent.

If I had to do this over I would probally not change a thing knowing now what I know. However when it came time to buy a bike for my 5 year-old it was a LBS Redline. I'll not skimp on wheelsets again given my usage and weight. Within the next week, likely sooner I'll top 2000 miles since keeping track and half my ridding is uphill and usually into a 15-25 mph wind. I started weighing near 290 this year and now am hovering about 250.

My bottom line is that at the time I purchased my bike $200 was almost more than I could afford; but also one of the best purchases I've ever made to improve my health and well being. That single purchase started me down the road back to fitness. Having been an elite distance runner in HS (1982 grad) with a pr of 4:36 for the 1600 meter (a yard short of a mile) I understood what fitness is. By this time next year I hope to be under 200 lbs and on a LBS bike. Would I recommend a $200. bike to a friend? you betchya, but with the added emphisis that they will be paying more down the road to fix and upgrade it depending on how much they use it. Considering what my other ride costs to operate, a Y2K Yukon, my bike has been cheaper despite the repairs and upgrades.

Ex Pres 

Black Walnut, congrats on your goals, and on your aggressive use of a $200 (+repairs) Costco bike. But even you know it's a disposable commodity, and when you decide to upgrade you could probably sell it for $50 - maybe a little more with the wheel upgrade.

Instead, you could have bought a [better] used $300-$350 bike. For example, I picked up a gently used 2003 Trek 1000 a few summers ago for $350 including clipless pedals, 2 helmets, a Specialized floor pump, and a tire patch kit & CO2 inflator w/saddle bag. After using it as one of my main rides for a summer (I have a bunch of 70's-80's bikes, too), I sold it - sans all the extras that I still have - for about what I bought it for. And no repairs required.

Just another way to skin the cat.

Most of my older bikes I sell for more than I paid, but they usually require some elbow grease.

cyclist2000

I look at the BSO as something I wouldn't let my daughter ride. I am looking for a bike to promote the cycling interest in her, not something that something that is so crappy that she would rather walk than ride.

wolfchild

It's all about the frame. The "heart and soul" of a good bicycle is in the frame. Components can be easily changed and upgraded. For me personally a real bicycle is buying the frame that I like and then buildying it with whatever components I choose.

Sixty Fiver

Have to agree that the quality of many cheap bicycles has never been worse in the 30 plus years I have been riding and wrenching and even though a bike shaped object is still technically a bicycle, it isn't a good one and not anything I would let my friends and family ride.

Biggest issue is with kid's bicycles which are often built to the lowest standard imaginable.

And I am no bike snob... I don't own a bicycle that paid more than $100.00 for originally and have rebuilt and refurbished them all with quality parts that have also been recycled. I do have some very nice bicycles... some are hand built, some are production hand builts, and a good number of them are old Raleighs.

Cheap bicycles used to be far better than what we are seeing now and this is due in part to those cheaper bicycles of 20-30 years ago being simpler machines that were made for transportation and recreation and they did not try and pretend to be anything but.

Worst seems to be the heavy cheap full suspension bikes that are heavy, poorly built, and have drive systems and brakes that are sub standard... seems like if manufacturers who cater to this market stick to rigid bicycles with decent parts the quality is much better.

My 11 year old daughter has a nice Raleigh hard tail that came from a department store which was pretty good in most respects but I would not let her ride it until I upgraded the pressed steel v brakes to better quality alloy ones and now her bike is rocking Avids and Kool Stops. Despite her diminutive size she lays a beating on this bike and will pop wheelies, bunny hop, and fly off curbs and as she can hit speeds of 30 plus kmh she needs brakes that work.

My daughters also ride vintage Raleigh 3 speeds which are their townies and commuter bikes... they date to 1977 and 1980 and they lay down some good mileage on bikes that are solid and comfortable, and a joy to ride. Neither was a very expensive bicycle when they were new but the quality was quite good.

My daily driver is a 23 year old Kuwahara Shasta ATB that did cost over $700.00 new but I bought the frame and fork used and built it up with some nice recycled parts and it has been serving me extremely well in a number of incarnations for 4 years.

Friend has the same bicycle that he bought new in 1988 and if you amortize the $700.00 he paid for it over the 23 years he has owned it (and it has been a solid bicycle) the cost is $30.00 a year.

My wife's commuter cost $1000.00 and if we amortize this over 5 years it is $200.00 / yr and expect this bike to last decades... not years, or months. Should note that she rides it 5000 miles a year, 365 days of the year, in any weather.

All bikes need regular maintainence, tyres wear out, chains and cassettes wear out, and regular service will extend the life of any bicycle... many of the BSO's in this world need to be fully overhauled before they are even road ready so one could factor in an extra cost of 40-60 for this and the cheaper grade parts will wear out much faster and require replacement much sooner.

UberGeek

Really? My department store bike does all of that, really well. In fact, last week, I broke 30mph on it, on a NYS Highway. And, since August (When I bought it), it has only needed a derailleur adjustment (At initial purchase time), and some chain oiling. And, thus far, I'm at about 600 miles or so (Bought on August 16th, so two months exactly).

I don't consider 300 miles a month to be a slouch. It sure isn't what some riders do, but it's far more than most do. And it's been used on roads and mups (It's a road bike).

My dad's Huffy I recently cleaned, has at least 5000 miles on it. That was his "light duty bike", and it's all factory parts, except tubes (They dry-rotted while in storage for 5 years).

My road bike cost me $260 (About 60 in accessories like a rack, bell, mirror, water bottle/cage, etc).

CaptCarrot

I look at it from the other way round...

To me, anything with 2 wheels that gets you from A 2 B reliably is a bike.

To me, the BSO's are the overpriced? specialist machines that, unless you are competing in sport on a regular basis (be it down hill, dirt cross, BMX, road racing, cross country, track, cyclocross, marathon, trathlon &c...) is complete and utter overkill and is brought out once a year because you are too scared of scratching it.

dabac

It should be a question about use vs quality as well.
A colleague of mine bought a "full sus MTB" for the kind of money you can easily spend on a cassette.
But he's going to use it for the 2 mile ride along dirt roads between his cabin and his fishing spot.
I'm betting the bike will never be shifted out of the middle ring. Between rides it'll be stored in an outhouse.
Excellent choice I'd say. Not much point in calling it a BSO even, as the use it'll see is CAS (casual and sedate).
Unless some visitor borrows the bike and gets a bit frisky with it, it'll last him for ages. And when it eventually will require a repair, the sheer time span will make up for the lopsided cost situation of repair vs purchase.

But let's assume that out of the blue he'll develop a taste for singletrack, turning 3 mile rides into 20 mile sweatfests? Or that he gets another similar bike and tries to use it to commute with?
This is when the BSO status will begin to hurt and make things financially awkward.

The Chemist

As far as I'm concerned, a 'real bike' is one that is ridden frequently. If it's not ridden frequently, it may as well be a BSO, regardless of how expensive it may be.

Kimmo

Just diving in before reading the whole thread, so someone may well have already said this, but BSO is a very good term to describe the sub-$100 rubbish sold at department and big box stores. No bike shop sells crap like that; cheap actual bikes start around $250-300.

These are only 'real bikes' by only the most generously literal description. In reality, like so much dross these days, they are created to be sold rather than used.

The quality standard of these bikes is below cheap and nasty; it's so bad these BSOs merely embody a waste of energy and material.

@ the OP: if it has any Shimano stuff on it, even the very cheapest stuff, I'd say it's likely just a cheap and nasty bike rather than BSO.

BSO is the lowest of the low. There's no rational excuse for such awful crap to exist.

PMSL, Shinango gruppo = fail at bikeness

Kimmo

Hey, don't be lumping road bikes in with all those specialists; the road bike is the general-purpose design.

For some years, this was my only form of transport. That's a 900g frame.

Medic Zero

I agree. I ride a bike that I picked up for $5. I've since spent close to a thousand dollars kitting it out the way I like. I know some people wouldn't see the sense in this, but in addition to my prefering the geometry and utility of a 20 year old full rigid MTB, I'd spend almost as much (if not exactly as much) replacing all the components of any brand new bike to suit me.

If I followed that rule of thumb, I might as well throw away the bike rather than change the first flat! It's value to me has virtually nothing to do with its cost (only if I had to replace it), for me the bicycle isn't an investment in the monetary sense.

HillRider

OK, now go buy a $80 bike from X-Mart and come back in two more months and let us know how it worked out for you.

Monster Pete

My regular commuter bike was salvaged from the local dump, so was probably a BSO in its former life. I repainted it (not necessary, I just didn't like the colour) and changed the rusty cables and greased the bearings and it's currently still serving me well. I've changed a lot of parts on it since then, but that's always been due to me being a tinkerer, not because anything broke. In doing so I've probably spent a considerable amount, which some would find silly on a cheap bike, but I now have a bike that is well suited to my needs. I'd probably still have ended up changing parts on a brand new bike.

I'll agree though, some of the utter junk being sold currently can barely be described as a bicycle. More like a toy bike that's left in the shed for most of the year, used a occasionally until it breaks, then thrown away.

HillRider

A 900 gram welded steel or aluminum, frame? Are you sure? Only the lightest carbon frames break the 1000 gm barrier with the only exception I know about being Litespeed's Ti Ghisello of several years back and that frame was a noodle in anything but the smallest size. I've never heard of any standard steel, aluminum or other Ti frame in a "normal size" being anywhere near that light.

LesterOfPuppets

Rodriguez is making sub 1000 gram S3 steel frames but you gotta pay for those. I'd be amazed if the mystery frame up there is actually 900 grams.

Bike Gremlin

For me, the bottom line is: does it let you ride all year long with just one, max two services. By service I mean changing worn parts and tuning shifters/brakes.


An acquaintance is a former cyclist and a bike mechanic. When looking for a bike, I asked him to build me one, that I could ride all year long with one service in the spring (and one in the autumn if necessary). It is my main means of transport and I go around 10 km each day. So it was: the cheapest possible as long as it is reliable. Not below that.

He went for a 150 Euros general store bike, took out new parts that were not good (and sold them cheap in his shop), and replaced with quality parts. Acera shifters were good enough he said. Not expert enough to even tell what other parts were put (better spokes on rear wheel, shimano bearings, shimano shifters and brakes, as well as levers).

Bike has seen over 3000 kms in a little over a year with no problems so far. If it starts asking for too much maintenance, regardless of cost, I will sell it and look for something better.

Oh yes, in the end, with all the extras (rack, LED lights etc) it cost around 350 euros. Not cheap. Like Sixty Fiver said, cheap bikes are not as good as they used to be. Seems like, in Serbia at least, you can't get a decent NEW bike for under 300 euros, which is an average monthly wage here.

LesterOfPuppets

There is a bit of a chasm between a BSO and what level bike an enthusiast will recommend to another enthusiast. If it's only a $100 difference from an A-group (Acera/Alivio/Altus) bike and a Deore bike I'd go with the deore bike. I've a Trek 4000 with an A-group front derailer and LX rear derailer. Front derailer works just fine. I used to turn my nose up at the A-group stuff, but no more.

Roadies typically won't even come close to considering 2200/2300 stuff and most would rather pretend that Sora doesn't exist. A true BSO road bike will often have sub-2200 stuff, from what I've seen.

I'm not sure if this is still true but a few years ago if you saw a bike with a sticker that said "Shimano Equipped" on it somewhere, it was a BSO. The upper range up these would have Tourney derailers and the lower end would have derailers that just said Shimano, or perhaps Shimano SIS.

Ahh, I found a photographic example. GMC Denali. Note the "Shimano Equipped" decal and the differences between its derailer and the 2200 derailer below. The claw derailer is often a good tip-off to a BSO. Also the riveted chainrings, often a sign of a junk bike.

CaptCarrot

despite the fuzzy picture, I have managed to do a little detective work. He left out a zero.

That appears to be a Giant CFR 1, in its factory spec it weighed 21.3 lbs or 9.66 kg, not 0.9 kg.