K That fits with what I was originally thinking and makes the humor in his statement more apparent, thanks Car.

Np. With the internally routed kit you have all the empty spaces inside the frame tubes to take all the wire slack (not a lot to begin with).Externally... if you have very long wires on a very small frame you can use the harness under the BB to 'spool' some of the dangling wires to get a cleaner look, just as you would have to cut standard brake/shifter cables to length. The latter takes tens of minutes when done right and is not reversible=). 'Shortening' Di2 wiring takes a couple of more bends and turns of the wiring in the harness. Internal or external kit, it is not even close to a spaghetti mess.

-Carcinogent

Surely you jest, sir! To quote "Pacific Overtures", "We will do it, and quicker than you think!"

Minimal compared to what? I'm talking about compared to a bike without electronic shifting...

Yes, minimal wiring, and Shimano labels all the wire ends, so you'd really have to be not paying attention to get it wrong. Wires are not wimpy at all and the connectors are super solid. Boss rides through all kinds of sloppy weather with it, and water/salt is not an issue with the system. He's also never run out of battery mid-ride.

I've done some car rewiring.. and a lot of time dealing with car stereo harnesses.. (improving there of and DIY hacking f-ing early 90's saabs are fun I swear). So I'd imagine you can make that really clean really easy!

Hehe. So you'll be right at home when you have to be creative with Di2 on non Di2 compatible frames and/or installing an internal battery.

I know I haven't expressed it well by major battery concern is well.. that it's a battery, it can leak, be defective, crack, run out of juice, have a wire nicked.. I've lost a lot of the concern with the discussion in here of the battery life/wiring setup, and of course it's more complex wiring then mechanical! but for electric, that's down right simple. Makes me wonder if there's a market for add on servos for regular derailers...

Front indexing is possibly the worst 'feature' Shimano has ever forced upon cycling; those used to friction front shifting might not notice quite the same improvement in front shifting. (To be fair, I haven't tried micro-ratcheting Campy front shifting, just the Shimano variety.)

Amen to that.

Micro racheting is almost like friction, just tiny clicks to micro adjustment and u are all set. But that feature is not in all the stuff from campy. Remember a veloce brifter i had, that came w/o the feature, but worked way better than sora tho.

I haven't had a battery go bad in a car, watch, rechargables for ever and it seems to have enough warnings of low battery so if it happens it's the users fault. You put air in your tires, lube your chain and charge the battery. My conern is it's so cool I'll shift for the hell of it.

Pcad............

While were discussing the complexity, desired or not, of the newer component systems, here's news that it's about to get better or worse. The following was just posted on the RoadBikeRider e-newsletter:

" News leaked out this week at Taiwan Bike Week (where components that will be spec’d on 2013 bikes are introduced) that Shimano is planning to launch its new 9000-series Dura-Ace 11-speed components group (not electric).

We heard at Interbike that this might happen, and now we know. Industry scuttlebutt has it that this will force SRAM to show their hand since they are getting dropped now by Campy with its electric group debut, and Shimano with its Ultegra Di2 and now brand-new D-A 11.

Another interesting tidbit from the leaked Shimano spec sheet is that it seems to confirm earlier reports of a new road-specific mechanical disc brake for 2013, as well.

Finally, there’s also speculation that Shimano’s Dura-Ace Di2 electric group will move to an 11-speed option this summer."

Just because we can do something, it does not necessarily follow that we must do it.

I have ridden and worked on DI2. It is interesting in a technical sense but I find no personal need to further idiot-proof such a simple activity as shifting gears on a bicycle. We humans have a particular love of inserting extra machinery and attendant complexity into every facet of our lives. We now have cars that are so complex, owning one without a warranty is considered foolhardy at best.

I drove a friend's new Lexus Hybrid SUV for several hours last week. While quite fascinating on one level, the feeling of there being a layer of electronics interpreting my inputs was pervasive. It's not an illusory layer, either, and those devices with lots of wires sticking out are often where the expensive trouble begins. He expects to trade it before 100,000 miles. Meanwhile, my old-tech BMW approaches 300,000 on the original drivetrain and has an electrical system that can be diagnosed with a multimeter, as opposed to the $44,000 BMW dealer computer the new cars are designed to rely upon because they've grown so unfathomably complex. The dealer mechanics aren't even being told how to fix the cars.....Proprietary Information! is the new cry of the car companies......

But, we humans are also easily led to believe what we currently have is always clearly inferior to what the companies who must sell us new things tell us we need....

How about if some of us like it just because it's cool, works great and keeps cycling moving forward. BTW, complex stuff is only that way until you get it, then it's nothing but cool imo of course.

Until it breaks. (Ducking for cover!)

You can't equate the current complexity of cars with bicycles. Automotive developments are being driven (pun unavoidable) by the demands for improved fuel economy, safety and polution control. None of these objectives apply to bikes. That said, the modern automobile is a marvel of long term reliability compared to it's much simpler predecessors of even the 1970's and 1980's.

Complexity and reliability are not mutually exclusive.

Just saying.

Very old school to think that nowadays. I remember skabeboards at the start and alot of you don't, a redboard with steel wheels and when things started to change it was oh sh$t, that is stupit and that will never work. Gee, look at them now. Not saying it will happen but in 10 years if you don't have electronic shifting then your old school. I've seen video with the tester trying to do everything wrong possible to screw up the shifting and they couldn't. If the battery goes dead then the rider didn't pay attention. Like anything else you'll have a few lemons but that happens with everything. It seems with it you would have less reason for a tuneup.

As I've alluded to previously, as soon as one of the big brands has electronic shifters in a triple version, I'm putting a set on our tandem. Driving a tandem is a lot like driving a charter bus: driver up front, transmission forty feet back. Half the time we're out of trim and I don't hear it, but the Mrs. is asking me to trim. When it's time to trim, I can't see what it's doing, so I have to guess. Sometimes, a trim results in a surprise ring shift, at which point the Mrs. is "getting my attention" a little more. Mechanical shifting's simplicity may be great, but with 7.5' long cables and less-than-top-of-the-line components (can't get DA/Super Record/Record for our bike), I'm ready for the better choice.