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replace worn chain, and...

Old 03-03-12, 05:09 AM
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replace worn chain, and...

i've got a 2010 Giant Transend-1 that i've been riding almost daily since oct 2010. it's pimped out with a nice saddle, nice pedals, awesome tires, rack, etc... this bike is my ride!

but where i should measure 12 inches on the chain, it's stretched out to 12⅛ inch.

i'm gonna upgrade to a wippermann 9SX 9 chain.

money is a factor, but this bike is my transportation. i'll treat it like i treated my cars, when i drove, and fix it smart; not cheap, not flash, just smart so i spend less in the long run. my primary concern is durability/price ratio; then weight.

now i'm wondering... should i replace the cassette (the XT M770 looks nice)? the chainrings? upgrade the whole chainset (the XT M771 looks nice)? what about the derailers? should i wait until i put the new chain on it?

other factors: i'm happy enough with the shifters (Shimano Deore Rapidfire 27speed). the gearing (from the highest to lowest gears) and 175mm crank length are good. on rare occasions it would sort of be nice to have a lower gear (going uphill) but otherwise there's nothing to complain about.

relevant specs:
3x9 - 27 speed
front derailleur - Shimano Deore
rear derailleur - Shimano Deore 9speed
cassette - SRAM PG950 11-34 9speed
cranks - Shimano Deore Class 26x36x48T (M443, i think)
chain - Shimano IG 9speed
thanks...!

Last edited by smasha; 03-03-12 at 05:14 AM.
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Old 03-03-12, 06:08 AM
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If your chain is stretched 1/8" over 12" you're right at the border of where the cassette will run with a new chain. I'd replace the chain immediately and see if the new chain runs with the used cassette. If so, breathe a sigh of relief. If not then either put the old chain back on and milk another few thousand miles out of both, or keep the new chain and replace the cassette also.

Next time, replace the chain when it's stretched only a bit more than 1/16" over 12". Doing so will keep the cassette in better shape and you should be able to run it with up to 3-4 chains before it too is toast.
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Old 03-03-12, 08:00 AM
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To get the most from the chain it should be removed from the bike and cleaned.
I have always had good luck with cheaper chains like the KMC's.
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Old 03-03-12, 08:36 AM
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I agree with FBinNY that your chain shoud be replaced on condition; if it works on your cassette without skipping leave it be. Otherwise a new cassette will be needed. Don't wait too long or you will wear the new chain excessively. A cleaning and lubrication would be a good idea as well.
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Old 03-03-12, 09:00 AM
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I would just replace the chain, chances are you will be OK but if it ends up skipping badly then you know you need to replace the cassette and possibly the chainrings although the chainrings are probably still fine. Next time ideally you should replace the chain at 1/16in wear as stated above though.

No need to upgrade unless you just really want to but realistically the difference in shift quality between XT stuff and what you currently have is not huge, I have a deore level cassette on my commuter and a 990 sram and I can not tell much difference at all.
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Old 03-03-12, 09:13 AM
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thanks all - that's what i was suspecting, about being right on the border of big problem (drive train) and little problem (just the chain).

as much as i don't really have the money, i'm tempted to upgrade the bike to:
  • Shimano XT Cassette 9 Speed M770 (11-34)
  • Shimano XT Chainset 9 Speed M771 (26-36-48)
  • Shimano XT Rear Mech Shadow 9sp M772 (SGS)
  • Shimano XT Front Mech Conventional 9sp M771 (Unisize - Dual Pull)

that's about $400-500(US) - half of which is the crankset. not cheap, but for the same money i could get a bus-pass for 4-5 months. i'd rather put the money into my bike! i didn't realize i've been riding it for a year and half!

i guess i'll see how it works with a new chain. if the cogs are too worn, i guess i'll get a KMC "missing link", put the old chain back on, and keep going until either something bad happens to the old drive-train or i pull the trigger on an upgrade.

if anyone has any comments on that list of parts for this bike...? if it makes a difference, it's already got schwalbe marathon tires and BB7 brakes.

thanks...
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Old 03-03-12, 11:00 AM
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smasha: You should not have to change out your derailleurs or chainwheels for a long time; certainly they should outlast several chains and cassettes if you keep them properly maintained. "Something bad" doesn't usually happen to bike drivetrains, unless you whack a derailleur against domething; they usually just slowly wear out. Cleaning, lubrication and timely chain replacement will go a long way toward keeping that from happening for many thousands of miles.
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Old 03-03-12, 01:19 PM
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I'd replace the chain, this is a regular maintenance item and should be done annually. Next year replace the chain and cassette.

Skip the upgrade, and save the cash. The parts you listed out are not a significant upgrade. The gear range you have, you should have no problem with hills.
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Old 03-03-12, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by smasha
thanks all - that's what i was suspecting, about being right on the border of big problem (drive train) and little problem (just the chain).

as much as i don't really have the money, i'm tempted to upgrade the bike to:[*]Shimano XT Cassette 9 Speed M770 (11-34)
Unless you are a competitive racer, weigh about two pounds per inch of height (140 pounds for 5'10) which suggests you have the body morphology for a great power to weight ratio and climbing ability, and are racing off the front in the mountains to an up-hill finish cassette upgrades don't buy you anything.

Where you are a 140 pound racer atop a bike just shy of the 15 pound UCI minimum saving 100g by getting titanium cogs results in a 0.1% speed increase that makes a five second per hour difference in your separation from the chasing peleton. The effects are essentially non-existent on flat ground and proportionally lower for bigger people atop heavier bikes.

I generally buy the least expensive cassettes with nickel-chrome plated cogs I can.

Spending more won't make them last longer (titanium cogs wear faster if you spend enough to get them)

In your case that'd be an HG50 that can be had for $25 not $100.


[*]Shimano XT Chainset 9 Speed M771 (26-36-48)
Once you have pins and ramps on your chain rings they're going to shift good and spending more won't make it better.The same caveat on weight applies. Chain rings last a very long time (several cassettes each of which lasts through several chains). Spending more won't get longer life.

[*]Shimano XT Rear Mech Shadow 9sp M772 (SGS)
Once you have a floating top pulley "better" rear derailleurs don't improve performance - they just look prettier. Spending more won't get longer life.

Rear derailleurs last a very long time. I got about 15 years out of my rear derailleur before it developed unacceptable slop in the pivots.

[*]Shimano XT Front Mech Conventional 9sp M771 (Unisize - Dual Pull)
Nearly all your front shifting performance comes from the pins and ramps and the remainder happens with a shaped cage that happens at much lower levels. Spending more won't get longer life (might get less; aluminum front derailleur forks show more wear than steel although it takes a long time).

Front derailleurs seem to last forever.

that's about $400-500(US) - half of which is the crankset. not cheap, but for the same money i could get a bus-pass for 4-5 months. i'd rather put the money into my bike! i didn't realize i've been riding it for a year and half!
If you want to spend money on a bike you might save your money for a raod bike with rack eyelets and fender clearance.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 03-03-12 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 03-03-12, 03:17 PM
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Replace the chain and it should be good.
IF the cassette skips, replace it too.

I disagree about putting the old chain on and riding until???
Why put excessive wear on the chain rings.

ALL the upgrades you list are a lot of money for something that you'll probably only notice in you head. (because you have to after spending all that money)
You already have "pretty good stuff"!
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Old 03-03-12, 03:27 PM
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@Drew - thanks for all of that. i certainly want to avoid spending so much that "lightweight" overshadows "durable". i weigh about 2.2 pounds per inch (most people think that's skinny enough!), but i'm not competitive and i've usually got my pannier bags full of stuff.

any advantages of spending more than $15-25 on a steel chain? i usually just do a dry-lube from a spray can on the chain and cogs (this seems to attract less dirt and grime than oil). because i ride in all weather and there's no layer of oil on the chain, my current chain does get some "surface" rust but it never stays still long enough to be a problem (AFAICT). this makes a stainless-steel chain (9SX) seem appealing.

right now my immediate concern is: what if i put on the new chain and there's excessive wear on the gears? should i just replace with similar? or spend a bit more and "upgrade"? in a way it seems silly to just replace deore with deore (especially when the XT stuff is so sexy)... OTOH you're making it seem silly to replace deore with XT (unless i'll be entering the bike in competitions; which i'm not planning on).

if a new chain reveals excessive wear on the cassette and chainrings, then i'll probably put the old chain back on and just run it into the ground. that's when i'd have to accept the possibility of something bad happening, and me walking home, pushing the bike.
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Old 03-03-12, 05:24 PM
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You should take into account that you have upgrade-itis a very common malady when you start thinking about upgrades as sexy. As said before, at 1/8" stretch you are on the border of having to replace a cassette, that is why I replace chains sooner than that usually at 3mm. Although one might pay more in chains, cassettes and such have much longer life than if you use the 1/8" rule (evey time you chain a worn chain it must grinding the cassette cogs back into spec). However probability that your drivetrain will be happy with a new chain at 1/8" stretch is very high; almost a given Back to upgrade-itis. There is no need to upgrade to XT as even Deore is overkill on a bike like yours. Take comfort in the fact that the 2012 Deore gruppo has been completely redesigned so you will be getting some trickle down improvements if you decided to throw some money at your bike to make it more sexy..
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Old 03-03-12, 08:13 PM
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I usually just buy the cheap sram PC-950 chains, I have had very good luck with them but most companies make quality stuff, I just like srams powerlink more than the other brands.

I would avoid spray lubes, wax lubes can be good but the aerosol versions tend to make a mess and you do not get as much for your money. You also do not need to lube the cogs, just the chain. Really any lube other than inside the rollers on the chain will just attract dirt. You want to lube the chain and then wipe off as much excess as you can. Hopefully that helps save some $$ on chain lube.

Hope this helps, welcome to the world of being a bicycle addict where we convince ourselves need and want are actually the same thing.
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Old 03-03-12, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by onespeedbiker
.... As said before, at 1/8" stretch you are on the border of having to replace a cassette, that is why I replace chains sooner than that usually at 3mm....
So you can tell within .007"?
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Old 03-12-12, 03:37 AM
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ok, so if i replace any drive-train parts, it'll be deore or comparable (unless i find xt for cheaper; unlikely).

the chain should be here in a day or two.

i've got the rear wheel off (unrelated maintenance) and noticed that the 11T ring is looking pretty "shark finned". the 13T ring is slightly shark finned, and the larger rings look ok. of course i won't really know until i put the new chain on it.


11T & 13T by aacckk, on Flickr

here in NZ i can get an HG61 locally for $120(NZ) or get one online for less than half that price (shipped) but it'll take about a week to show up. HG50 cassette is cheaper still, but also a week in transit. the current cassette is a SRAM PG950 (11-34).

if i do order a new cassette, would it be a good idea to also order a new crankset? it looks like about $95(US) to order an M590 crankset (or $200-250(NZ), locally). then i'd "upgrade" to an external BB (after spending another $30(NZ) to get the BB-shell faced). if i order a crankset with a cassette i can combine the shipping and still not get smacked around with import duties.

and i've got a chain-checker on order, so i won't let my chain get this bad again.

Q: with the 11T ring looking that worn, should i go ahead and order a new cassette? and new crankset? or wait until i try out the new chain? then wait another 1-2 weeks, if more parts are needed?
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Old 03-12-12, 05:17 AM
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I'd replace the chain immediately and see if the new chain runs with the used cassette. If so, breathe a sigh of relief. If not then either put the old chain back on and milk another few thousand miles out of both, or keep the new chain and replace the cassette also.
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Old 03-12-12, 05:34 AM
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it's shifting poorly and making noise. there's not gonna be another few thousand miles out of the current chain.
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Old 03-12-12, 08:07 AM
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FWIW, I loathe Wippermann chains. I do not get the allure. Every single time someone brings me one of those to install, the bike that used to shift nice with the KMC I previously installed comes back with shifting issues. The one I installed on my DA equipped Waterford turned a beautiful shifting bike into a serial chain thrower.

Tried SRAM, too. Not impressed.

KMC or Shimano. (Yes, I know KMC makes Shimano's chains )
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Old 03-12-12, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BikeWise1
FWIW, I loathe Wippermann chains. I do not get the allure. Every single time someone brings me one of those to install, the bike that used to shift nice with the KMC I previously installed comes back with shifting issues. The one I installed on my DA equipped Waterford turned a beautiful shifting bike into a serial chain thrower.

Tried SRAM, too. Not impressed.

KMC or Shimano. (Yes, I know KMC makes Shimano's chains )
KMC used to make Shimano's chains, but not anymore, according to our Shimano rep.

On the topic of shark-toothed cogs, they're shark-toothed when brand-new, so it's not easy to determine cog wear by appearance. In the bigger picture, the SRAM PG-950 cassettes are quite affordable and make a great cheap daily-driver cassette if you're not concerned about weight. If you're still on the fence about whether to replace the cassette, at least it wouldn't cost you that much.

If the RD does need replacement, I suggest the non-Shadow RD. I think they track the cogs better, having tried both. XT has outlasted Deore in my experience, I just retired another 2-year-old Deore for slop in the parallelogram pivots on my own commuter. It was bad enough to cause occasional chain jumping. In your case, if you did want XT, you'd want the RD-M771 SGS (non-Shadow, top-normal, long arm).

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Old 03-13-12, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by smasha
i've got the rear wheel off (unrelated maintenance) and noticed that the 11T ring is looking pretty "shark finned". the 13T ring is slightly shark finned, and the larger rings look ok. of course i won't really know until i put the new chain on it.

That 11T cog looks fine to me -- the tooth shape you see is to improve shifting. If the cog were worn, you'd see the shark-finning on the other side of the teeth.
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Old 03-13-12, 07:20 AM
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Replace chain and cassette.

Don't worry about 'upgrading' - it is a waste of money. You should be able to get a few more years out of the derailleurs and the chainset should outlast every other part of the bike.
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Old 03-18-12, 06:47 PM
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update: the new chain is amazingly better than what was on there. i can't believe i let the old chain go for so long, and how trashed it is. just the difference in sound (now lack of sound) while pedalling is incredible.

the new chain is shifting great and hasn't skipped yet. there's a problem shifting from the middle to inner chain-ring, but i think that's been fixed with a limit-screw adjustment.

while waiting for the chain i did get a little excited and order a new cassette and crank-set which i'm now in no rush to replace, but it'll be nice to have spares when the world ends, in a few months
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Old 03-19-12, 03:47 AM
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update #2: the adjustment to the low limit-screw has everything running perfect.

i just picked up the new/spare parts, and in that box was a chain-checker tool. i was expecting the old chain to easily show 1% wear, but most parts of the chain just barely fit the 0.75% gauge. i just thought that was weird, since the chain is obviously blown.
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