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Problem with tire bead popping off

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Problem with tire bead popping off

Old 05-02-12, 10:47 AM
  #1  
Gallo
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Problem with tire bead popping off

I got an old bike with 700 Araya wheels
The rims are in good shape however the bead keeps popping off the rim
I thought it was the tires do I replaced them with vredstiens forteza duo
They were not easy to install and the same thing happened
Any ideas?
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Old 05-02-12, 11:27 AM
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Could be the rims themselves. Older generation rims pre-1980s, might have not have a "hook-bead" inner wall. This makes them incompatible with lots of new higher pressure clincher tires. At the same time, double check the specs on the rims if they are embossed or there is still some label on the rims.
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Old 05-02-12, 11:58 AM
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You are putting 700c tires on 700c rims, correct? If so, the absence of a hook (as noted above) might be the issue if you are trying to inflate to a high pressure. What is the rim width and what size tires (700c x ???) are you putting on them?
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Old 05-02-12, 12:33 PM
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Is it both front and back?
Does it happen when you're riding or just when you pump them up?
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Old 05-02-12, 01:02 PM
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Are you sure you don't have any inner-tube under the bead pushing the tire off?

rim circumference may be undersized for the tire chosen.

were they easy to put on?
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Old 05-02-12, 02:15 PM
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They were no easy to put on 1985 Craigslist bike bought for Ragbrai did not want to bounce my carbon frame for 4000 miles. Nishiki Tri A bike was barely ridden

The rim is a 700 x 25

Tires 700 x 23

Front and back it happened when riding and this time just after I pumped them with the new tires

Assuming they do not have a hook bead what are my options other than new rims would simply putting less air in work?

I have a front spare front rim all my rears are for 10 gear and this much narrower at 6 gear

Thank you all for your answers
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Old 05-02-12, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
They were no easy to put on 1985 Craigslist bike bought for Ragbrai did not want to bounce my carbon frame for 4000 miles.
Wow, RAGBRAI's a lot longer than it was last time I did it.

If you really don't have hook bead rims, the option is to get some old style clincher tire that only takes about 80 psi. Probably 25mm or wider. Unless the wheels are a lot older than that bike though, I can't believe that's the problem.
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Old 05-02-12, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
The rim is a 700 x 25

Tires 700 x 23
Assuming the 25mm is the rim's exterior dimension, that should work fine. Check to see if the rims are hooked (it will be obvious if you look closely). If they are not, that is probably most of the problem. If they are hooked, it is probably an installation issue (most likely getting the tube trapped under the bead).
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Old 05-02-12, 03:29 PM
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Its all about technique, at least in my experience.

First, are you using a floor pump, or an air compressor. An air compressor will tend to fill the tube too fast, easy to get the bead off center.

Secondly, inflate the tire slowly, and rotate it a full 360 degrees, on both sides, making sure bead spacing is centered. If it is not centered, deflate it and try again.

I used to pop tires on hookless rims, until I stopped using my compressor and started inspecting the bead area while filling.

I now use my compressor, but I have a bicycle inflation adapter that fills more slowly. It has a nice trigger mechanism so I can ease the air in. Such an adapter is on the spendy side. Fortunately, I picked mine up used from a shop that was closing.

FWIW: I used to run Michelin Elan tires on my Peugeot back in the 1975, hookless Araya rims, to about 110psi.

http://www.amazon.com/Problem-Solver.../dp/B001F2Y2U6

Last edited by wrk101; 05-02-12 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 05-02-12, 03:34 PM
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I very much doubt the rim is the problem, but it's possible. We're missing one critical piece of info, and that is to what pressure are you inflating?
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Old 05-02-12, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
I very much doubt the rim is the problem, but it's possible. We're missing one critical piece of info, and that is to what pressure are you inflating?
agreed, and how about a nice shot of the rim sans tire and/or definitive make and model of rim?
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Old 05-02-12, 04:06 PM
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I don't know what your problem is but try this- put a little air in the tube before installing, just enough to make the tube round. I find that using my mouth to blow into the tube will give me the right amount of air. This will help avoid pinching the tube between the rim and the tire bead. If there is any part of the tube caught between any part of the rim and the tire bead it will lift the tire off of the rim. I quit using Vredestein tires because I thought the beads are too small and too easy to unseat.

If your rims are 25 mm across the inside they are too wide for 23 mm tires IMO.
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Old 05-02-12, 04:14 PM
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I will shoot a picture when I get home

I agree it could be an installation issue

It is not my first tire but I will follow thrifty bills advice and double check

I am using a floor pump. 100 psi

Ragbrai is probally close to the same distance as Iowa has not gone through a growth spurt the 4000 reference was to the distance the bike will be on a rack to and from. With the car packed with riders and gear the bikes will be relegated my hitch rack I would hate to have the carbon wonder doa

Thanks again for the advice it is appreciated will post pics
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Old 05-02-12, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Al1943 View Post
.....If your rims are 25 mm across the inside they are too wide for 23 mm tires IMO.
I put 23MM tires on a 20MM rim (more to to look at than anything) and the brake surface of the rim is "just a hair" wider than the tire.

Imagine turning a sharp corner and hitting the pavement with the rim on a 23-25 combo.
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Old 05-02-12, 08:27 PM
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Here is a link to the photos of the rim

https://plus.google.com/photos/11740...Mq-xczci6322wE

1) Rim does have have hook bead

2) Rim appears shallow to me

3) From my perspective the rim seems 20 wide (see photo with wrench). I mentioned it was a 25 based on the brochure that I found which has my bike and its specs link below.

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/213...07/4266921515/

4)I took wrk101 advice and went slow and made sure I did not miss something when re-installing the tires

5) while I might have misaligned the tube I doubt this as I have put tires on for years had my share of mishaps and have learned from it.

6) as this problem has happened on two different brands Hutchinson and Vredsteins I do not think I can blame the tire.

I think this rim is rather shallow and I did not align the bead to the hook bead correctly. If this is the case I should be diligent when repairing or replacing the tire.

I welcome any input.

and once again many thanks to those that answered
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Old 05-02-12, 08:49 PM
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25MM!
Not even close!

http://sheldonbrown.com/rim-sizing.html
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Old 05-02-12, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
They were no easy to put on 1985 Craigslist bike bought for Ragbrai did not want to bounce my carbon frame for 4000 miles. Nishiki Tri A bike was barely ridden

The rim is a 700 x 25

Tires 700 x 23

Front and back it happened when riding and this time just after I pumped them with the new tires

Assuming they do not have a hook bead what are my options other than new rims would simply putting less air in work?

I have a front spare front rim all my rears are for 10 gear and this much narrower at 6 gear

Thank you all for your answers
If you have older 25mm alloys you need to run 25mm likely 28mm with a low narrow profile tires to get everything to work. Modern 23's just will not work on this rim. Ounce mounted the tires need to run slightly wider than the rims or they just won't work.

Last edited by zukahn1; 05-02-12 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 05-03-12, 09:33 AM
  #18  
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Are those Kevlar beads on those tires? I found that the old Araya rims are much better off with tires that are at least 25 mm and have wire beads.

Plus, your azz will thank you if you put on 28 mm tires for RAGBRAI instead of 23 mm. Get some cheapies from Performance and run em at 80 pounds. Use the nice Vredesteins for the go-fast bike.
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Old 05-03-12, 01:36 PM
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Rim tape could be sliding around during tyre and tube installation, and rim tape could be stopping the tyre seating on the rim properly. I've changed over to the sticky type rim tapes because of it.
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Old 05-03-12, 03:24 PM
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Red-label Araya rims. They're fantastic -- I've got a set on one of my bikes. Inner width is about 14mm, so that's not your problem. (700x25 was the stock tire size, not the rim size.)

Are you putting a little bit of air in the tube *before* you install it and the second bead? (You should.)
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Last edited by ThermionicScott; 05-03-12 at 03:28 PM.
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