arex

I've been reading threads, and reading books, and reading Sheldon...and I'm thinking I'm ready to try building a wheel. It's going to be a rear wheel, a new Mavic 26" rim laced up to an old Deore DX 7-speed hub, 32 holes. However, there are inevitable questions...

1. Nipples. Are there any advantages of alloy over brass besides weight? Are alloy more prone to galled threads than brass? I'm building for strength, since I'm a fat bastard, so the few grams that brass would cost me are irrelevant. I want to use whatever will hold up the best.

2. Spokes. Do I want straight for strength, or butted for springiness?

3. Spoke length. Using DT Swiss' spoke calculator, I came up with lengths within 1.5mm between left and right. I checked and rechecked my input, but I can't help but think I buggered something up somewhere. I haven't checked against any tables yet. Do I need to recheck my numbers, or is it normal to have spoke lengths that close?

Any other advice would be helpful, including "Just let a shop do it" if you think I'm headed for heartbreak.

UnsafeAlpine

1. Use brass. Alloys are for weight and colors.

2. Go for double butted. The ride is better and the spokes are as strong or stronger than straight.

3. Yeah. I've had that happen. As long as you've punched in all the right numbers, the spoke lengths could be close to matching.

TampaRaleigh

Go with brass. Less likely to round the nipples too.

That "springiness" tends to make them less likely to break... so, it sorta makes them stronger. Go with butted.

Double and triple check your numbers. I even ran it through a couple different calculators just to be safe.

DO IT!!! It's not that difficult, and it can be very rewarding! In the worst case, if you're having difficulty with tensioning and truing, any decent shop would be able to take it over from there and finish for you.

Good luck!!!

Bill Kapaun

I've come out even slightly less than 1.5MM difference.

If you are using a 7 speed free hub body, spaced to 135MM, the wheel has much less dish, than say a 9 speed @ 130MM. Less dish = less difference in length.

You might also want to check with another calculator, such as Spokecalc.xls or EDD.

Kimmo

1. Brass.

2. Butted is stronger.

3. Yep, not a lot of dish on 7spd 135mm rear. Nice and strong.

Go for it. For a rear, I usually like to add the first round of tension to just the drive side first, to the point the wheel begins to feel halfway solid, and then add tension to the NDS. This avoids a lot of the effort of trying not to round off tight DS nipples, since it's an easier way of getting the DS up to tension.

mrrabbit 

1. Brass, but if you go alloy, go with quality DT Swiss alloy nipples. Make sure the rim has eyelets if you go alloy.
2. Butted if you can afford it...
3. You can also try https://www.mrrabbit.net/wheelsbyflemingapplications.php - grab the spreadsheet.

=8-)

pierce

your first few wheel builds should, IMHO, be conventional wheels with 32 or 36 spokes in 3 cross. when you can build those perfectly, THEN dabble in fancier stuff if you feel the need.

arex

1. Brass it is.

2. Butted it is. I wasn't sure about the dynamics of this, and the butted spokes seemed a bit counterintuitive (in spite of what I'd read), which is why I was leaning towards straight spokes.

3. The EDD calculator came up with 1.8mm difference between sides, which is awfully close to the DT Swiss 1.5mm. Also, EDD knew about both my rim and my hub already, rather than relying on my measurements...so, I'm feeling pretty good about this.

...thank you, everyone. I feel semi-confident about this endeavor...and, as suggested, I can always pay a good shop to check my work.

joetheun

Agree with all that. Especially the start with the DS drive side. When you get that slightly tight check and adjust the hop or up and down movement of the rim. really easy to do when DS is the only spokes your working with then tighten the NDS to bring rim to center. Most importantly TAKE YOUR TIME. More beginner wheel builders try to tighten to quickly and then it gets really messed up trying to figure out whether or not to tighten or loosen when the wheel is wobbling all over. Also try to do it when you have a couple hours to yourself with out distractions. Have fun. I fine wheel building relaxing.

pierce

the reason double butted spokes are better is, the thinner middle section is stretchier, this acts as a shock relief so the spoke heads don't take all the shock when you hit bumps etc, so they are much less prone to breaking at the end.

Jeff Wills

4: Expect to spend a lot more time than you think putting the wheel together, and roughly forever getting it round, trued, and tensioned. Go slowly, get used to turning each nipple 1/4 turn at a time, and you'll be OK. Patience, and enjoy the process.

I spent two afternoons building and truing my first wheel. That was with experience truing wheels and under the tutelage of a master mechanic. That was also 35 years ago... wheel building is addictive: once you build a good one, you want to build another one, and another, and another... eventually you'll mortgage your house and your cat to buy more spokes and hubs and and and

Sorry, I haven't built a wheel in a while. I'm getting twitchy.

neurocop

And probably easier to begin with front wheels, so as to avoid having to deal with asymmetric dish. My first build was a 5-speed high-flange 36x3 rear wheel. It took a couple of days to get it tensioned and dished correctly. My next wheel was a plain low flange front 32x3, and it went together in a couple of hours. I also think a spoke tensiometer is very useful, especially when starting out. I know experts can do a great job by ear. I managed to build a half dozen wheels before I got one, and they worked fine for the way I used them (daily commute, occasional 50-100 mile road tours, but never anything very demanding). One good reason to use a tensiometer nowadays is that modern wheels use a variety of spoke materials, sizes, and shapes and these give different sounds when plucked, so it's more difficult than it used to be to know by sound when you've tightened the spokes to the correct tension.

superfred

Another tip: Don't trust the quoted ERD numbers for rim specs. Buy the rim first with a pair of spokes and nipples, then measure the rim ERD yourself. Thread the spoke ends and the nipple tops so they are flush, and measure the distance between the the spoke shoulders. Add that gap along with 2x the spoke length to get your new erd. Do calculations with the new ERD and order your spokes.
https://lenni.info/edd/howtomeasure

enjoybikes

good tip i got and haven't heard it reiterated here is to apply plenty of lube, (tri-flow, etc.) to eyelets and nipple during truing/tensioning. the less friction the better and you get more actual nipple turn instead of spoke torsion.

My experience with the DT is spoke lengths coming out 1-2mm long, then running out of threads for adequate tension. I've been knocking 1-2mm off DT calc'd spoke lengths for my builds. Total of 4 wheels built now which isn't a huge database of info, just my experience.

Bill Kapaun

Is that actually measured with a ruler or just the result of your wheel build?
I seem to be coming out 1MM short on my 3 builds (2 DT & 1 WS) and ordered the Park spoke gauge to measure future spokes.

Wil Davis

I recently finished a wheel-set using new hubs, but re-used the spokes, and checked the calculations (Spokecalc), finding them to be spot-on! (measured from the bend in the elbow to the tip using a metal rule). I used brass-washers under the spoke-heads (as recommended by Gerd Schraner) on this build, and found the wheels came up to tension beautifully, and left no problems with spokes poking out above the nipples. After the initial lacing, I started the tensioning with 1 clear thread left on each spoke, and followed Schraner's method to the letter (see his Truing Procedure table on p.85) Both wheels came up easily and required minimal tweaking to finish them.

- HTH

- Wil

arex

If my rim has eyelets on the spoke holes, should I still use washers?

FBinNY 

Generally no. But if you're using aluminum nipples, washers can help reduce scoring of the nipple.

400trix

Uh, no. The spoke has the same material throughout its length, therefore, the center is no "stretchier" than either end. It is, however, more flexible, and that flexibility means that the deflection is in the center, as opposed to the ends, which is more likely to break.

FBinNY 

I think Pierce and you are saying the same thing slightly differently. If this were an engineering thesis we could debate the subtleties of the language, but for a forum both are close enough.

400trix

I can't help it: I come from a long line of pedants stretching back to the 17th Century.

Drew Eckhardt 

It depends on how you measure. While elastic modulus is constant, with that being the case extension for a given force is inversely proportional to cross-sectional area. The center of a double-butted spoke stretches more per unit length than its thicker ends.

pierce

ahhh, thank you, thats exactly what I meant.

Bill Kapaun

Maybe the term "elongation" would be more suitable?

lvolpe

If this is your first build, then I would highly recommend Roger Musson's wheelbuilding book which gived a tremendous amount of useful information. I just built my first set and found his book indispensable. His recommendation would be butted spokes.