I've seen some video and articles about setting the correct saddle height. As far as I observed from them and from cyclists on the road, when the pedal is at highest point, the thigh should NOT be horizontal (parallel to the ground), but should be slightly downward (i.e. knee lower than hip). Otherwise I suppose it's harmful to the knee.

In order to do so, however, I have to set my seat very high, the maximum height possible. As a result, not only my knee would be almost straight when the pedal is at the lowest point, but also my feet is very far from the ground when letting my leg straight down from the seat (i.e. my feet could never touch the ground even when the bike is slightly leaned to one side when stopping at a red light: I have to get off the bike completely). And I remember I had hip pains when saddle was set too high and the ride demanded some effort.

So in short, either my seat is too high causing hip pain, or it's too low harming the knees. The point is there is no point where the seat height can accommodate both for me.

What's the problem? Is it my leg proportion unsual (thigh/calf too long/short), or the crank arm is too long for me (which may mean the bike is too big for me?)? Otherwise I feel perfectly comfortable with my bike.

Doubt sports orthopedists work off text descriptions , Make an appointment to Go see a real one .

First, unless you have extremely short legs and very long crank arms there is no way your thigh would be parallel at the top of the stroke in any normal saddle position. Google bicycle fit and you will find plenty of guidance, but basically you should have a slight bend in your knee when at the bottom of the stroke with your foot properly positioned on the pedal (ball of foot). Some recommend putting your heel on the pedal (other leg hanging free) and adjusting so that your legs are straight and hips level. Then you adjust as needed from there.

The saddle is adjusted to the pedals, not to the ground. When you start or come to a stop it is correct to be off the saddle standing between saddle and bars. It is also somewhat important to have a good fore-aft position for the saddle. More info would be helpful - frame size (center of crank axle to center of top tube), leg length (floor to crotch, no shoes) and crank arm length (usually written on inside of crank arm (165/170/175, etc.)

Shouldn't it be "extremely long legs"?

How high must the saddle be to cause hip pain?

No - if you have short legs the crank arms are long in proportion and will move your knee up more.

The saddle should be at such a height that you are not forced to rotate your hips when pedaling in order to reach the bottom of the stroke. Hip pain can come from a variety of causes, including riding too high a gear, seat too high/low or too far forward.

You have over 1,400 posts on bikeforums. You must know some experienced bike riders. Ask one of them to watch you ride and then ask them what they think.

My foolproof, surefire method is this-
Adjust the seat so that your heels reach the pedal without rocking the hips.
Add 1/8" to the seat height for each shoe size over 8.

If it doesn't work, sue me.

But if the legs are very long, it can "cramp" up at the top of the pedal cycle.

Yes, I got hip pain when both these factors combine: high saddle + high gear. I've moved up the saddle and will see how it goes if I avoid too high gear. Thanks.

I guess---it seems---the rule is to have the seat as high as possible without having to "rock the hips" (?).

Hi,

No idea where you have got the thigh idea from, its wrong.

Correct seat height is very simple. With the ball of your foot
over the centre of the pedal you should be able to only just
lift your self out of the saddle left and right at the bottom.

This will also correspond to not being able to this without hip
contortion with your instep/heel over the centre of the pedal,
and also being able to lock both your legs straight somewhat
forward of bottom position when coasting in the saddle.
(Leg should lock out straight down around instep/heel area.)

I find the most accurate indicator of seat height is the locked
out angle above bottom when seated, it confirms your leg
when pedalling in the seat never completely straightens.
(So therefore you won't swaying hips because its too high.)

At my age (50+) I like to move my feet (and everything else)
around and like easy riding pushing between the ball and toes
of my foot rather than through the ball, and I think that only
works if you have the seat height near the right height.

rgds, sreten.

Typically for a good seat height you cannot reach the ground
with your feet, and starting/stopping involves dismounting
and mounting the saddle, unless you are next to a kerb.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Seems to confirm "as high as possible without rocking the hips"? Like you I also like to move around. Most cyclists I see on the street can stop at the red light staying on the seat with one foot on the ground, while I was busying with dismounting and mounting (this is Manhattan with a red light every few blocks).

No, actually if done properly one can stop and start quite quickly without staying in the saddle. In fact many who stay in the saddle start up awkwardly. You just shift to a good gear as you slow down, put one foot down and then rotate the other one so that the crank is pointing forward. When the light changes you just step down on that pedal, which puts you up in the saddle and propels you forward at the same time.

Then it's safe to say most of the cyclists you see have their seats much too low. Properly adjusted, you should not be able to put your foot on the ground while seated unless you lean the bike very far over.

The only way to avoid dismounting in traffic is to: a)time your riding to catch the lights green, or b) run all the red lights or c) learn to do a trackstand.

Hi,

You can certainly start faster with the seat at the right height
and the correct mounting procedure compared to those that
can stay in the (too low) saddle at lights.

Away from the lights the "too low saddle" types usually have to
stand up to make better progress than me in their default gear.

Mounting you start stood up and set off very quickly, especially
if you don't go immediately to the saddle, though I usually do.

If you have a short urban commute its probably best to set saddle
height so your toes can reach the ground, it is just safer, and
probably set up the bike for a relaxed riding position.

Only on longer rides will you really notice the effects of
good seat height and better riding positions and a few
other things, like nice tyres and a better saddle *.

rgds, sreten.

* A great saddle for commuting isn't a great
saddle for touring much longer mileage usually.
The other way round does work better usually.

While some would try to make rocket science out of seat height, that isn't necessary. Higher, short of having you reach for the pedals is generally better. It's sort of like playing blackjack, closer to 21 is better, but passing it is a bust.

Likewise, look for the highest comfortable seat height, and ideally have a friend confirm by riding behind you. Rocking hips as you pedal is an indicator that you've reached too high.

As for finding a happy medium between too low at the top of the stroke, and too high at the bottom, here short people are at a decided disadvantage since the typical 340mm pedal diameter is a greater proportion of their leg length than it is for taller, or longer legged folks. That's why they make childrens' bicycles with shorter cranks, and in reality many women (or short men) would benefit from this option.

That's standard practice in fitting a bike.

The usual technique is to slide forward off the saddle so your feet reach the ground while straddling the top tube. When you resume riding, you stand on the pedal to lift yourself back into the saddle.

Shorter crank arms produce less range of motion in the leg joints and may help.

From your description, I wouldn't think the bike is too big for you, but perhaps the cranks are too long. If you have arthritis or other joint problems, shorter arms may help. Otherwise, if your expectation is that you should be able to plant your feet on the ground while seated in the saddle, one of the "crank forward" designs like the Electra "Townie" may need your requirements:

Thank you all so much for all the replies and advice. I read each and every one and they are all very helpful.

I'll see if after raising the saddle things will go well without having to change crank arms. Why don't most hybrid/comfort bikes have the same "crank forward" design as the Townie in the picture? It looks comfy and should reduce knee injuries. What's the advantage of the regular crank arm position over this forward one?

It isn't that simple. The typical position above and slightly behind the cranks is the result of 100+ years of dialing in optimal riding position. If the "crank forward" position were generally advantageous that's what recreational bikes would have had for the last 50 years, at least.

The position is OK as a plan B for folks who otherwise might not be able or willing to ride, but it comes at a cost of greatly reduced efficiency, increased back strain because of the upright posture which cannot diffuse vertical bumps well.

As far as less knee strain, I doubt it, since leg motion is similar, except that it might prevent you from standing easily and putting your full weight on you knees.

There is no magic here, probably the reason Townie riders have less knee stress (if they do) is probably that they're riding slower, avoiding steep hills (which are murder to climb in this position), and simply not riding as much.

BTW- normally cycling is a low impact sport (lower even than walking) and is easy on the joints. As long as you use the gears properly to manage load when climbing, it should create zero wear and teat on the leg joints. SO if you are having problems, you should consult a doctor or physical therapist to try and discover the actual cause.

A common issue for folks who have feet that naturally point out (opposite of pigeon toed) is the twisting needed to fit on and use narrow pedals. These are often helped with pedal width extenders. I'm not saying these will help everybody, but that if you have joint pain of unknown cause, that you take the time to sort out the cause.

The last indicator that I use to fine-tune my saddle height is whether or not I find myself sliding off the back edge of the saddle when climbing moderate hills while seated, as I extend my leg comfortably for easiest pedaling.

The act of near-full leg extension is pretty intuitive, so from there I just raise the saddle if I feel the back edge of the saddle causing a pressure point.

A too-high saddle, otoh, seems more obvious, but can be a false alarm if the saddle happens to be too far from the bars, since an overly bent-over position will then make the saddle nose seem too high. Sometimes sliding the saddle foreward is the final tweak that gives a best-overall fit in lieu of lowering the saddle further.

As for the Townie bike, I think it's fine for very low-effort cycling on level ground.
It would be interesting to see how many easy miles that one could ride one for, perhaps five?
Seems like the reclined seat tube allows more leg extension for a given saddle height from the ground, without resorting to a lower bottom bracket and shorter cranks.

The Townie is something in between the regular bike and a recumbent? Occasionally I saw folks riding a recumbent in the Central Park, pretty cozy

My next-door-neighbor, (who is a serious mtn-biker), has a crank-forward that he uses for riding around town, and he loves it.

I wouldn't base my bike fit on random NYC commuters.

Yeah, sort of. I think the real innovators of this style were the folks at Rans:

https://rans.com/bicycles/crank-forward.html

The Electra bikes are fine for the purposes mentioned above, and it's easy to see why timid riders like being able to put their feet on the ground at stops, without leaving the sadde. The ones I've tweaked for friends didn't have high build or component quality, but they weren't terrible.

Yup. Best summary so far.

Unfortunately, the Fit Kit people have just called my old friend Joey, from South Philly, about you. . .

Hi,

You can't go as fast, go as far or climb as well with one. Out of
the saddle looks to be quite awkward and ideally needs a purpose
designed saddle, but other than that they are fine for pootling about.
(And doing wheelies if that is your sort of thing .... even if it isn't ....)

If I had one of these I certainly use it :



rgds, sreten.