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Breaking chain at same pin previously broken

Old 07-01-13, 07:58 PM
  #1  
cthenn
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Breaking chain at same pin previously broken

If I break my chain in order to take it off the bike, is it acceptable/preferred to break it at the pin where it has previously been broken (where the replacement pin is)? I just want to make sure it's not going to cause a problem if I always break the chain at the same pin location. Don't know if that could cause a problem with the replacement pin getting looser with each replacement.
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Old 07-01-13, 08:21 PM
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I'll answer my own question. Shimano dealer manual says to NOT do that...so I will just break a different link pin, and not at the previous connector pin.
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Old 07-01-13, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
I'll answer my own question. Shimano dealer manual says to NOT do that...so I will just break a different link pin, and not at the previous connector pin.
The dealer is correct. Do not break the chain at the installation/connector pin and always use a new specific connector pin to replace the standard pin you do remove.
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Old 07-01-13, 08:46 PM
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Yes, the answer is makes sense if you think about it a bit. When you break and close the chain the special pin stresses the plate a bit as it snaps in. Keep using the same hole, and it'll get enlarged, or the plate may crack. So start fresh each time. I guess that means that you can only cut and splice a chain about 55 times.
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Old 07-01-13, 08:51 PM
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The reason is the replacement pin is oversize. That only works once.
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Old 07-01-13, 09:11 PM
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Use a master link instead ?
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Old 07-01-13, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
Use a master link instead ?
If you find yourself busting the chain multiple times a good quality master is a nice option you can get one for around $4.00. What I'm wondering is why are you busting the chain multiple times? Normaly I find myself busting chains for service only 3 or 4 times during the life of the chain sometimes less.
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Old 07-01-13, 09:58 PM
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Get a master link. Seriously. Disconnect and reconnect the chain by hand. By the time you do it a few times it pays for itself compared to those stupid pins.
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Old 07-01-13, 10:25 PM
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https://www.treefortbikes.com/product...FdRZ7AodNSAAaw

and

https://www.bikesweets.com/ProductDet...IERS&click=130

to remove them.

They recommend replacing the link when you replace the chain. I've used them for several years with no problems.
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Old 07-02-13, 12:11 AM
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I Joined Sedisport chains in a loop with a chain tool , now With the current chains I just use the chain pin tool to
alter the length , + the quick links..

though if its a single speed, old style protruding pins chain, , I'd be fine , opened mine at the half link..



of course since Rohloff's Revolver iii chain tool peens the pin end, they improve the retention..

Last edited by fietsbob; 07-02-13 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 07-02-13, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by FastJake View Post
Get a master link. Seriously. Disconnect and reconnect the chain by hand. By the time you do it a few times it pays for itself compared to those stupid pins.
Aside from the expense, the big hassle with the connecting pins is that you absolutely need to have a new one (and a chain tool) on hand if you should need to open your chain for whatever reason.
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Old 07-02-13, 06:56 AM
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Yes by all means get a master link that you can easily take apart. The pins in chains these days seem to be quite different than the ones years ago anyway. They appear to be swagged over.
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Old 07-02-13, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
The pins in chains these days seem to be quite different than the ones years ago anyway. They appear to be swagged over.
That's exactly what they are. The pin's ends are riveted and pushing one out wipes off the flair and makes it unusable.
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Old 07-02-13, 10:48 AM
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Thanks for the master link tip. Some links (URL links that is!) in thread go to 10 speed master link. Maybe I'm dumb (highly likely) but I couldn't find 11 speed master link (quick Google search). I need Shimano 11-speed master link.
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Old 07-02-13, 05:45 PM
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At the last tech seminar, I asked the guys at Shimano why they used those 'stupid pins' instead of a quick link system. I was told they tested different quick link systems for years and couldn't come up with anything that didn't compromise the strength of the chain by becoming 'the weakest link'. The oversized pin approach apparently doesn't have that problem.

The numbers I was quoted were 'the quick links wore up to 30% faster than the rest of the chain'.

Last edited by Burton; 07-02-13 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 07-02-13, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
I'll answer my own question. Shimano dealer manual says to NOT do that...so I will just break a different link pin, and not at the previous connector pin.
That was going to be my flip and unkind suggestion: RTFM 8-). And I don't believe you even need a "dealer manual"; I'll bet the consumer installation instructions are clear on that.
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Old 07-02-13, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
Thanks for the master link tip. Some links (URL links that is!) in thread go to 10 speed master link. Maybe I'm dumb (highly likely) but I couldn't find 11 speed master link (quick Google search). I need Shimano 11-speed master link.
https://www.kmcchain.us/

According to their website, they make one. I think the KMC chain it the same as the Shimano.
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Old 07-02-13, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Burton View Post
At the last tech seminar, I asked the guys at Shimano why they used those 'stupid pins' instead of a quick link system. I was told they tested different quick link systems for years and couldn't come up with anything that didn't compromise the strength of the chain by becoming 'the weakest link'. The oversized pin approach apparently doesn't have that problem.

The numbers I was quoted were 'the quick links wore up to 30% faster than the rest of the chain'.
Deja Vu. I swear I read something recently somewhere on exactly this thing about great wear on master links. So was was balancing the cost between bulk Shimano replacement pins (segmented type with break-off tip) and the master link. And I think I got a bulk price on some Shimano 10 speed and other speed for like $1.50 in groups of 25 or 50. I think you can get them for around $11 for a bag of 5 pins still. While retail for a 10 spd master link was like $2 in a 6 pack/card. So the price isn't all that much different, and if the life span of the master link is only 30% less, then not a big deal. I could either replace it for an extra $2 or so and use the chain for 30% longer. Or I could just replace the chain, since I'm likely to replace it anyway. But what could really make the master link a better value is that for the life of me, I can find my chains and master links in one of my parts bins. But where are my bulk Shimano link pins? I recall organizing my inventory in the garage and not finding any, well maybe an older 8 or 9 speed link pin. And it's not like I stock a lot of shimano chains either. But losing that many chain pins is a dumb mistake. It could still be somewhere, but we moved across town last year, and I'm still missing stuff.
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Old 07-02-13, 07:31 PM
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I wonder about that 30% faster wear claim. The old 8-speed Craig/Forster links did develop a click after a couple of thousand miles but the Wippermann Connex links I've used with their 9 and 10-speed chains seem to last forever, certainly for the 8,000 or so miles I put on a chain before replacing it (and the cassette). I've used many of them over the years and never broken one.
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Old 07-02-13, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
I wonder about that 30% faster wear claim. The old 8-speed Craig/Forster links did develop a click after a couple of thousand miles but the Wippermann Connex links I've used with their 9 and 10-speed chains seem to last forever, certainly for the 8,000 or so miles I put on a chain before replacing it (and the cassette). I've used many of them over the years and never broken one.
There's no reason why a connector link would wear faster than any other link IF it's made of the same material and temper. One problem with making a connector link is that you need to machine a small groove into the pin. This is difficult with the material typically used for chain pins, so some use a softer material. But it is possible, and some chain/connector makers do use the identical specs for normal and connector link pins.

I suspect that Shimano's aversion to connectors is historic. When they developed Hyperglide chains, there were still patents in place on connectors, and it's possible that they tried and failed negotiating a decent royalty, or skipped that altogether and set out in a new direction. Now, having successfully developed their pin system, they're not interested in abandoning it. It isn't a question of better or worse, but using heir system or someone else's.
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Old 07-02-13, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
That was going to be my flip and unkind suggestion: RTFM 8-). And I don't believe you even need a "dealer manual"; I'll bet the consumer installation instructions are clear on that.
Actually no. The consumer manuals are pathetic. For some reason, Shimano has made these manuals very minimal now. I just got a bunch of new components, and all of the manuals were a joke, they don't tell you anything. You have to know how to find the dealer manual, which is NOT on their consumer websites. They probably don't want dummies like me who don't know to break a chain doing work on bikes.
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Old 07-02-13, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bikepro View Post
https://www.kmcchain.us/

According to their website, they make one. I think the KMC chain it the same as the Shimano.
The only 11 speed one I found was "KMC and Campy" compatible only...it's ok, I already bought a 5-pack of pins, so I guess I'll just use those until I run out.
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Old 07-03-13, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn View Post
Actually no. The consumer manuals are pathetic. For some reason, Shimano has made these manuals very minimal now. I just got a bunch of new components, and all of the manuals were a joke, they don't tell you anything. You have to know how to find the dealer manual, which is NOT on their consumer websites. They probably don't want dummies like me who don't know to break a chain doing work on bikes.
Something must have changed. I will still encourage anyone to simply read the installation instructions which are availalbe online at shimano.com. The last time I bought Shimano chain (7900/6700, just a couple of years ago), the installation instructions were very specific on how to use the pin, and that you should never break the chain in the same place twice, of course along with other minutia like plan it so the splicing pin is the leading pin of a pair.

It's online: https://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830682232.pdf

But maybe they're not including good instructions with chains nowadays.
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