Campy Bottom Bracket
12-07-13, 05:01 PM
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Campy Bottom Bracket
I have a Campy square taper, Italian threaded bottom bracket installed on my Olmo. It is not original to the bike.
On my last ride I suddenly found that I could not shift the chain up to the larger chain ring. The front derailleur was moving as it normally did, it had worked earlier in the ride. Getting off the bike and looking closer I found that the bottom bracket cup on the drive side was threading out, moving the crank / chain ring away from the frame.
I went straight home and once on the stand I found that the NDS was threading into the bottom bracket shell. The crank arm had less than the width of the hair between it and the the bottom bracket shell.
I do not have a torque wrench and have always gone by 'feel'. I have never had this issue before but this is the first Campy bottom bracket that I had in which I was also turning my own wrenches. I will likely by buying one soon after this.
On my other bike that I have wrenched, they were English threaded Shimano cup/spindle type and there was always a lock ring on the NDS. This bottom bracket does not have a lock ring on the the NDS. It seems to me that a lock ring would prevent this sort of thing from happening, of course proper torquing would probably go a long way too.
My questions are:
Do BB cups need to be torqued? If so, how much?
Should there be a lock ring for this bottom bracket?
On my last ride I suddenly found that I could not shift the chain up to the larger chain ring. The front derailleur was moving as it normally did, it had worked earlier in the ride. Getting off the bike and looking closer I found that the bottom bracket cup on the drive side was threading out, moving the crank / chain ring away from the frame.
I went straight home and once on the stand I found that the NDS was threading into the bottom bracket shell. The crank arm had less than the width of the hair between it and the the bottom bracket shell.
I do not have a torque wrench and have always gone by 'feel'. I have never had this issue before but this is the first Campy bottom bracket that I had in which I was also turning my own wrenches. I will likely by buying one soon after this.
On my other bike that I have wrenched, they were English threaded Shimano cup/spindle type and there was always a lock ring on the NDS. This bottom bracket does not have a lock ring on the the NDS. It seems to me that a lock ring would prevent this sort of thing from happening, of course proper torquing would probably go a long way too.
My questions are:
Do BB cups need to be torqued? If so, how much?
Should there be a lock ring for this bottom bracket?
12-07-13, 06:07 PM
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Yes. 70 NM. 52 ft lbs. Using the cassette tool.
No. Install the drive side until it bottoms on the lib then the NDS.
The lock ring is necessary on adjustable bottom brackets because the NDS cup is only tightened enough to set bearing preload. You don't need one on a cartridge unit - just tighten the cups enough.
Should there be a lock ring for this bottom bracket?
On my other bike that I have wrenched, they were English threaded Shimano cup/spindle type and there was always a lock ring on the NDS. This bottom bracket does not have a lock ring on the the NDS. It seems to me that a lock ring would prevent this sort of thing from happening, of course proper torquing would probably go a long way too.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 12-07-13 at 06:12 PM.
12-07-13, 06:13 PM
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If the NDS side threaded in too far, it means the DS has to have unthreaded. Italian bottom brackets have right hand threading on both sides and the drive side tends to loosen with pedaling forces. The "cure" is to torque the drive side to full spec which, as Drew noted is 70 NM. That is VERY tight and far more than you are likely to apply with out a torque wrench for guidance.
12-07-13, 06:24 PM
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Clean the threads really well in the BB cups and the bike shell, then add a bunch of lithium grease in the shell threads, that grease last way more than other ones and is not expensive. Then put teflon tape around the threads in the cups (figure it out the right direction to put the tape, if you put it the wrong way it will get all mushed up while threading the cup), install the cups.
As for torque, well the side that has the lip just crank the crap out of it, it wont go nowhere because it will stop in the lip. as for the other one you have to be carefull because you cant just go and crank it too much.
Never had a single problem with italian BBs using this method, no no to locktite ok? Just teflon tape. All my bikes are italian threaded just in case.
Good luck.
As for torque, well the side that has the lip just crank the crap out of it, it wont go nowhere because it will stop in the lip. as for the other one you have to be carefull because you cant just go and crank it too much.
Never had a single problem with italian BBs using this method, no no to locktite ok? Just teflon tape. All my bikes are italian threaded just in case.
Good luck.
12-08-13, 12:17 PM
#5
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Might be a good time for 2 tools , to apply counterforce
I got the lower cost models <C> made
with the External Spline .. on my Pinarello CX frame , so I can add an O ring on the spindle
before I put the crank arm on , for an extra seal ..
still have the Italian 115 to resell.
I got the lower cost models <C> made
with the External Spline .. on my Pinarello CX frame , so I can add an O ring on the spindle
before I put the crank arm on , for an extra seal ..
still have the Italian 115 to resell.
Last edited by fietsbob; 12-08-13 at 12:21 PM.
12-09-13, 12:21 PM
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When torquing an Italian BB you need to tighten the drive side much tighter that you have been doing with the British BB. The bearings in the BB tending to unscrew the cups/bb cartridge the opposite direction the axle turns; it's refereed to as the precession. With the reversed DS threading of the British BB, the peddling motion tends to tighten (or at least not unscrew) the DS BB cup/cartridge while the standard threading of the DS of the Italian BB tends to loosen the cup/cartridge, so you need to ramp up the torque to counter this tendency. If you don't have a torque wrench, figure your best effort with a 10-12" breaker bar (standing over the top tube and pushing the breaker bar down). Since the NDS of both the British and Italian has the same standard threading, which tends to tighten the NDS cup/locking ring, I would assume as your DS was unscrewing, the NDS was tightening. As long as the BB is in good condition, there is no reason to replace it. Just re-install as usual, but give the drive side more attention.
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