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What's inside an Edeluxx II?

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What's inside an Edeluxx II?

Old 04-13-14, 05:24 PM
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Rubato
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What's inside an Edeluxx II?

Has anyone been inside an Edelux headlight? My brand new Edelux II spent a couple of hours yesterday on the bottom of Puget Sound. After grappling the bike up from about 34' of water, to no surprise, the headlight doesn't work. I am still getting current from the SON hub (impressive!) but the light housing is full of condensation. I've used these lights year round for a long time in soggy Seattle but this was apparently too much. I have nothing to loose by dismantling, and even if I can't fix it, it would be educational and fun to try something I've never seen. Looking for suggestions.
P.S. Having torn the rest of the bike apart, the old advice to use boat trailer bearing grease is a great tip!
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Old 04-13-14, 05:45 PM
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There is a "Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets" forum here. You are more likely to get useful help from them.
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Old 04-13-14, 06:40 PM
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Opening it is a warrantee voiding activity , so No I leave it alone, if it is DNF, they are not big , mail it back to Germany for a repair.

SON Repairs

fall off a Ferry-boat crossing the sound ?
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Old 04-13-14, 07:03 PM
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it's unfair to ask for help while teasing us with what might be an interesting story. I feel like saying no help until you say what happened, but honestly I have no idea, so while I'd like to hear the story, don't want to extort it out of you unfairly.
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Old 04-13-14, 07:07 PM
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At this point dunk it in fresh water to clean it and let it dry out. I am only guessing, but I would assume it has a circuit boar and switch that needs to be dry. You have a generator powered flashlight so that's why I think the insides would be the same without the batteries.
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Old 04-13-14, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Opening it is a warrantee voiding activity...
Wouldn't being dropped into Puget Sound also be a warranty-voiding activity? If so, like the OP said, he's got nothing to lose. Open it up, clean it, let it dry, and see what happens.
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Old 04-13-14, 08:26 PM
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Here are some nice exploded pictures of an Edelux. Your circuit board is most likely short circuited somewhere with water or salt. I'd try removing the circuit board and washing it with dH2O. Let it dry for a couple days and then check every connection with a voltmeter. Replacing components might be tricky with all the surface mount stuff there, but you know, if you've got a steady hand I'm sure it's doable. Mouser/DigiKey/DealExtreme or whatever for sourcing.
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Old 04-13-14, 08:41 PM
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If exposed to salt water, you want to disassemble it and flush with HOT (or at least warm) water ASAP!!!!!!!
Salt water and circuit boards don't mix.
You are in SAVE MODE!
After flushing WELL, douse with alcohol.

I used to build oceanographic instruments. I've had my experiences with "green soup" caused by all the dissimilar metals used on a PCB getting immersed with salt water.
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Old 04-13-14, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
it's unfair to ask for help while teasing us with what might be an interesting story. I feel like saying no help until you say what happened, but honestly I have no idea, so while I'd like to hear the story, don't want to extort it out of you unfairly.
Well, it's like this.... i live on a sailboat and usually keep the bike on deck, port side. I was getting ready to sail across the Sound to a nice little anchorage for the night. I put the bike on the dock, where I've parked it hundreds of times. I put groceries aboard, went below to stow them and get my sailing gear. I came back above to rig the boat and "....Ah....Where's my bike? XXXX!" I had a bike stolen a few months ago and that was my first thought. "NO. No way. Not in broad daylight, on a Saturday, with me aboard." Then it can only be one place. Overside. Under the right water conditions and tide level, I can sometimes see the bottom. Yesterday it was impenetrable. "Crap oh Dear!" (paraphrased). "A diver is going to cost a bunch 'o bucks." I had no luck dialing for divers and certainly didn't want the bike sitting and slowly sinking into the silt. I rigged up a grappling hook from some stainless scrap that had been in the fo'c's'le for years. I was able to snag a brake cable. I was very happy to save the bike, pleased with myself for being clever, and angry for leaving the bike where it was susceptible to large wake action on the dock. I promptly flushed everything with fresh water, knowing it was going to be a total rebuild. I'm happy with the situation. It's an old frankenbike; I've put much too much $ into it; I've had it a long time; I like it. It's not often the bone headed mistakes I make can be fixed for a few hundred bucks and some pleasant time at the bench. It's spring in Seattle.
As a side note, I wrote the US importer for SON and Edlux, Peter White, from the Anchorage Sunday AM. I was asking about the seals in the generator and etc. He wrote back, not sure about the answers but he had already sent my questions to the manufacturer in Germany. Nice.
And yet another side note, about 3-4 days prior to baptizing the bike, I had applied Chain-L. After working on the bike today, I can say that not only does it work well through Seattle winters, it works well at a nice depth for anchoring in Puget Sound.
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Old 04-13-14, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Rubato View Post
Well, it's like this.... i live on a sailboat and usually keep the bike on deck, port side. ......
And yet another side note, about 3-4 days prior to baptizing the bike, I had applied Chain-L. After working on the bike today, I can say that not only does it work well through Seattle winters, it works well at a nice depth for anchoring in Puget Sound.
Great story, I'm glad I asked, and now really feel bad that I can't help with the light, except to say flush/soak with fresh water (do not allow any power while wet) then flush with something like WD-40 or LPS-1 to float away the last of the water. Shake out and dry completely before testing.

The navy has tons of stories about saving the avionics off planes that went into the drink using fresh water flushes and products like LPS-1, so there's still hope.

Sorry to hear about the near drowning (of the bike). Great job with the rescue and resuscitation. Snagging a bike at 34' working blind takes luck or talent, or both.

Can I use the story on the Chain-L testimonial page?
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Last edited by FBinNY; 04-13-14 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 04-13-14, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rubato View Post
Looking for suggestions.
If washing then only by dipping in distilled water. For drying do the same as with a phone, put into a sealed box together with rice and keep it there for 2 days. You may replace the rice couple of times in a day.
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Old 04-13-14, 11:14 PM
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Tap water will be fine to remove the salt. The light will have to be disassembled and flushed, but the reflector is likely toast. If it is still shiny, don't touch it with anything except water and shake dry (search cleaning of electro-deposited reflectors).

You might get a kiddie pool or similar and completely dunk the disassembled bike. Don't wait for it to dry out; just don't wait at all. Water at 34' is about 15psi over atmospheric pressure. Guaranteed that there's salt water in every nook and cranny. With dissimilar metals, electrolytic corrosion happens fast.

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Old 04-13-14, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
Tap water will be fine to remove the salt.
NO tap water for electronics. Tap water contains salts just like seawater, just at a lower concentration. The residues are going to conduct.
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Old 04-13-14, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i View Post
NO tap water for electronics. Tap water contains salts just like seawater, just at a lower concentration. The residues are going to conduct.
No water is truly pure -- the question is of concentration. Residual salts from tap water don't have enough activity to cause problems for the circuit in question. When removing salt water, speed is more important than purity. But, since the OP apparently tried to power the light up, the question may be moot.

Last edited by AnkleWork; 04-13-14 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 04-13-14, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
No water is truly pure -- the question is of concentration. Residual salts from tap water don't have enough activity to cause problems for the circuit in question. When removing salt water, speed is more important than purity.
I've been there many times. In dynamo bike electronics, and elsewhere, you try to to squeeze out every bit of power and you go with MOSFETs and they care about resistances of few hundred k Ohm. Yes, you apply coatings, but there are microcracks in the coating e.g. caused by larger components vibrating. You stay away from any water but distilled poured into the inside.

P.S. Maybe I should soften this. You can start with tap, but you need to finish with distilled.

Last edited by 2_i; 04-13-14 at 11:46 PM. Reason: P.S.
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Old 04-14-14, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
You might get a kiddie pool or similar and completely dunk the disassembled bike. Don't wait for it to dry out; just don't wait at all. Water at 34' is about 15psi over atmospheric pressure. Guaranteed that there's salt water in every nook and cranny. With dissimilar metals, electrolytic corrosion happens fast.
Yes! You are going to have problems with a lot more than just the light unless you disassemble, fresh water wash and dry the frame and components. If the frame is steel, it's even more critical. Once clean and dry, interior tube treatment with Frame Saver or Amsoil HDMP is highly recommended for any steel frame used in a salty environment.
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Old 04-14-14, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ericoseveins View Post
Here are some nice exploded pictures of an Edelux. Your circuit board is most likely short circuited somewhere with water or salt. I'd try removing the circuit board and washing it with dH2O. Let it dry for a couple days and then check every connection with a voltmeter. Replacing components might be tricky with all the surface mount stuff there, but you know, if you've got a steady hand I'm sure it's doable. Mouser/DigiKey/DealExtreme or whatever for sourcing.
Wow. Great stuff-thank you. It's probably beyond my ability but I'm encouraged to look...
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Old 04-14-14, 08:00 AM
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Most of you probably know that nowadays circuit boards are assembled and soldered with aqueous flux which is corrosive and conductive when wet. This stuff would be very bad if left of the boards so the standard process is to pass the soldered boards through a washer which works much like a dishwasher and has several stages of washing to completely remove flux residue. The final stages use deionized water so as not to leave any salts on the board or parts. The boards and electronics are designed and intended to withstand this. Some components, like pressure or humidity sensors, might have ports that are sealed with plugs or tape that protects them during the wash cycle and that must be removed to become functional. Some electromechanical items, like some switches for example, also have removable seals.

Anyway, IMO, the guts of the Edlux will benefit from through washing in water, preferably followed by a good rinse in DI or distilled water. Adding a little detergent or desalting agent (Saltaway available at West Marine) to the washing stages would help. The sooner the better. No matter what, this will be way better than leaving salt water residue in it.
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Old 04-14-14, 08:14 AM
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It's probably beyond my ability but I'm encouraged to look...
Oh, nah. It's likely a pretty simple circuit and you've got some pretty great hackerspaces in Seattle, I'm sure they'd be happy to help you. Even if the board is fried, you could rebuild the circuit on perfboard or design one of your own. It's a relatively compact light but you've still got plenty of space. You could definitely add a more powerful emitter to it.

If you're thinking about rebuilding it, I would totally save the shell and the parabolic reflector because making good optics is the one aspect of diy lightbuilding that doesn't measure up to the manufactured stuff out there. Saw that somebody wrote that the reflector is probably toasted and I'm curious why - it's probably aluminumized plastic and I would think you could put a rotary tool with a buffing attachment on it and clean it up unless the salt caused the aluminum to flake or something.

And if you decide you don't want to dissect the circuit board, I'll send you a stamped, self-addressed envelope and you can mail it to me. I'd love to see if they use any special standlight tricks in their design.
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Old 04-14-14, 09:38 AM
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Seems the Edelux electrical connection on the bottom, for the taillight AFAIK is where water goes in .

guess you have to pry the lens ring off , I suspect then you will not be using that one , and just buying a new one ,
but experimenting on the cadaver.

Along the same lines, a buddy uses the modified bow railing as a bike rack to hang his bike up there, on his marina liveaboard.

had to put on his wetsuit and go get his bike off the bottom, a couple times,

but does not use such a nice bike as yours, seems.


Up there the Anchor Outs row their dinghy to & from shore , not even paying for moorage & hook up fees .

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Old 04-14-14, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ericoseveins View Post
Let it dry for a couple days and then check every connection with a voltmeter. Replacing components might be tricky with all the surface mount stuff there, but you know, if you've got a steady hand I'm sure it's doable. Mouser/DigiKey/DealExtreme or whatever for sourcing.
I am baffled by the recommendation of checking every connection with a voltmeter?! If the circuit is w/o power there are no volts to read there. The circuits are normally heavily coated, so you better get no connection there.


Originally Posted by ericoseveins View Post
Oh, nah. It's likely a pretty simple circuit and you've got some pretty great hackerspaces in Seattle, I'm sure they'd be happy to help you. Even if the board is fried, you could rebuild the circuit on perfboard or design one of your own.
The circuitry is for sure not simple and the design can be challenging even with those with experience in electronics. Is it the case of a wanna-be professional trying to pass as a professional?!
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Old 04-14-14, 09:58 AM
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Oh man, definitely not posing as any kind of EE but let's face it, there's really not much going on in a dynamo light. : ) Not arguing, just curious - where exactly is the substantial complexity to which you're referring? Maybe Schmidt uses some interesting standlight tricks (which is why I'd love to take apart their board) but what else? Mode switching? Overvoltage protection? Come on, the OP can do this, don't be discouraging.

I am baffled by the recommendation of checking every connection with a voltmeter?! If the circuit is w/o power there are no volts to read there. The circuits are normally heavily coated, so you better get no connection there.
Well obviously you'd need to drive the circuit. My presumption was that the board would basically need a rebuild, since the capacitors are almost definitely gone already and who knows about the LED. But the purpose is to find out what (if anything) on the board is salvageable.

Last edited by ericoseveins; 04-14-14 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Ok ok, maybe I'm arguing.
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Old 04-14-14, 10:13 AM
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Apparently, the circuit is mostly power conditioning, current control, and maybe mode control. The concepts and circuit elements are common and widely understood, if not exactly simple.
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Old 04-14-14, 10:31 AM
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+ the sensor that detects daylight and wont turn the lights on , then.. in senso mode..
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Old 04-14-14, 10:34 AM
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Really kind of took the punch out of my rhetorical question there. : D I wonder if Schmidt even bothers to limit the current since the output falls so far below where the LED is rated.

Argh, Mondays. The main thing is I think the OP should just get in there and go to town.
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