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Frame identification - Carlton/Raleigh frameset?

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Frame identification - Carlton/Raleigh frameset?

Old 03-26-15, 08:34 AM
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maiello
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Frame identification - Carlton/Raleigh frameset?

Evening Folks,

My brother-in-law donated a frame to me that he no longer wanted which a friend had given to him. Neither of us know the true origin of the frame. I would love to build a good tourer up from scratch and thought this frame might do the trick as it has eyelets for mudguards and looks to be of a sturdy nature. I am curious though as to see whether any body can help me identify the frame. As far as I can see there are no serial numbers, no holes for a head badge no name or label. The previous owner seems to have literally coated it in Dulux paint and then left it to rot. Although set up with one cog on the chain set it clearly has guides for two cables. So in a previous incarnation it must have been a double chain set on the front. Someone I know said that a frame might be identifiable (period if not name) from the lugs which I have posted below. The only other thing I can say about it is the hex key for the quill stem seems to be imperial as none of my current Allen keys fit it. And the original paint seen inside the steering tube is a metallic dark red. I would like to restore it to its former glory but need a heads-up on the frame brand before I do. Any guidance and advice would be gratefully welcomed. I can always post more photos if these are not enough.

I have posted this thread under 'Frame Identification,' I got 4 replies a very thorough one which suggested that the frame could be a Carlton Catalina or a Carlton Crespera or a Raleigh Gran Prix, but they weren't sure and thought a Carlton/Raleigh expert might be better informed. I have since rubbed more of the paint away and found to my dismay that there are no etchings or markings on it. Nothing on the drop outs, nothing on the tubes or bottom bracket. No filled in holes for a head badge either. It was also suggested on that thread that I ask for a carlton specialist to look at the pictures to see if anyone can perhaps identify it as such. Suggested period 60's-70's

Thank you.

Gerald

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Old 03-26-15, 10:48 AM
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Hello Again Gerald,

This thread might be a better fit over at the Appraisals and Inquiries forum:

Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries

wrt the absence of headplate holes - Carlton also did some private labelling such as these bikes for the Huffman Co. in the U.S.:

Carlton_Huffy
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Old 03-26-15, 11:02 AM
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Despite the built-in derailleur hanger, the fact that the dropouts are stamped means it's probably not a great frame. If you want to do the project as a way to learn how to build bikes from the frame up, it could be fun, and it could definitely be a ride-able bike, but I'd want to start with a higher-quality frame. Have you weighed it? That could give us an idea as to what quality steel the frame is too.
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Old 03-26-15, 11:07 AM
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Can you identify the seat post size? That, too, might tell us something.
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Old 03-26-15, 11:10 AM
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But for the derailleur hanger I'd think 'Raleigh Gran Prix' or maybe Carlton equiv. Can you feel a weld seam in the seat tube? Holes in the headtube from head badge?
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Old 03-26-15, 12:32 PM
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Yeah, stamped rear dropouts with a derailleur hanger are not too common. I can't think of a Raleigh that has them. And I don't recognize the lugs as having been used on Raleighs, at least in the 70's, though I'm no expert.
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Old 03-26-15, 02:37 PM
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Many thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can shift it across.
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Old 03-26-15, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by maiello View Post
Many thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can shift it across.
Where are you located? With the distribution of Raleigh bicycles being so widespread, different markets received different specs. I'm still leaning Raleigh/Carlton.
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Old 03-26-15, 03:10 PM
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maiello
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England. Must admit from the weight of people's opinions i'm leaning that way too. Just a shame I have no numbers on the frame
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Old 03-26-15, 06:35 PM
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As was said before. The lugs are Carlton design called "crespera." I don't know what bike models they used these on, but there were a few to be sure. One of them was the Raleigh Gran Prix. But that one, at least the ones imported into the US, did not have your integral derailleur hanger. They DID have a bridge over the seat stays for a center pull brake. So I don't THINK you have a Gran Prix. So in all likelihood some other Carlton made frame. From the 1965-75 era, more or less.
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