DSMRob

This might come off as a dumb question but how old of a bike could I get and use a current 105 groupset? I have an issue where I really love the looks of the vintage frames and forks but would like to have the groupset be newer technology. More like a modern day retro type of thing I guess. Also would the origin of the bike make a difference?
Man this just sounds dumb when I type it out but I got stuck in some damn bike porn thread for a few hrs last night and found some unreal bikes.

Thanks,

arex

Depending on how old the frame is, you might run into problems mounting the rear derailleur. There might be ways around that, however...it wouldn't surprise me if Problem Solvers has a solution.

lostarchitect 

The main thing that could be a problem is the spacing of the rear dropouts. Depending on the age, it may have a 120 or 126mm spacing. New groups want 130. Steel bikes can be adjusted by a framebuilder (coldsetting) to accommodate this. So the short answer is, yes, it can work with a little adjustment.

andr0id

Main things to check are 130 rear dropout spacing and make sure brake clearance are for a 700c standard size caliper.

I'm not sure why a RD hanger would be an issue. You should have it aligned though since 11 speed is going to be tighter tolerance than what was on there.

Some horizontal dropouts have too much material where the stays meet the dropout and that can interfere with the small cog of 10 or 11 speed cassettes, so that is one more thing to check.

Other than those things, new groups will work on older frames very nicely.

Cold setting a 120 is pushing it IMO, you will likely end up with visible signs of setting near the brake bridge.
126 to 130 is no problem.

bikemig 

You don't even need to cold set it to go from 126 to 130; you can just push open the drop outs to insert the rear wheel. Brakes are no big deal; you need to measure the reach to make sure they work. There is a longish thread on BF of vintage bikes which have been retro-fitted with STIs.

andr0id

If you want to be able to easily put wheels in and out, you should get it set to 130 and have the dropouts realigned. I did this on my Panasonic and rode it for many years.

Depends on your level of tolerance for right vs almost right though.

bikemig 

Not really. I've done this on a few bikes. It's no big deal. Checking the alignment of the drop outs is a good idea; cold setting is not necessary.

oddjob2

+1 The oracle is with Bikemig on this one, you're talking a shade over 1/8"

Darth Lefty 

Because Huret didn't do it like Campagnolo

squirtdad

Origin makes a difference also, French thread, italian thread, british thread, Swiss thread.

But as noted pretty doable.

Do you have your eye on any frames?

lostarchitect 

Definitely true if the drops are 126mm. With 120 you probably want to cold set. Personally I might do it anyway with 126 and make sure the drops are aligned too.

3speedslow

Let's look at the front DR. Most modern Drs want a brazen on . The clamp could come from problem solvers. Make sure it is the right diameter, 28.6 I believe.

hairnet

Shimano offers clamp on FDs in 31.8mm with shims for 28.6mm.

D1andonlyDman

You can easily buy a clamp for fitting a Braze-on FD to a bike without one. I picked one up on ebay, made with nicely black anodized aluminum, for under $3. You could pay $7-10 and get one from the U.S.

They make them in 28.6, 31.8 and 34.something.

I actually prefer to go the clamp-on route, because you can better adjust the height of the front derailleur relative to the large chainring. Something that's critical when using a triple crank that may not be the size that the derailleur was optimized for. For example, most Shimano road FDs are designed for a 50-53 big ring, but most compact triple cranks are smaller. If your FD is too far from the big ring, you might either have a hard time shifting up to the big ring, or to be able to make that shift, it might need to over-shift and then be susceptible to dumping the chain.

As for the rear dropout spacing, Most older steel frames are 126mm. 120mm spaced frames are REALLY old, or mainly for track frames. It's pretty easy to squeeze a 130mm wheel onto a 126mm steel frame, and if you do that over time, the steel frame will eventually partially cold-set itself to about 128mm - at which point it will be just about equally easy to mount 126mm or 130mm rear wheels on it.

caloso

If I were king, all FD's would be braze on and be shipped with a clamp.

icepick_trotsky 

Have you seen this thread, @DSMRob?

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...i-s-ergos.html

icepick_trotsky 

You've got my vote.

Henry III

I believe the biggest issue will be bb threading. External bearing bottom brackets only come in two thread type...English and IItalian. If the frame is and Italian or anything with English threading then your good to go with just a few little solvable hiccups along the way but nothing that can't be dealt with easily.

Just let us know what kind of frame your interested in and we'll let you know.

3speedslow

Sorry, you don't vote for kings. They would cut your head off if you didn't though !

CliffordK

The problem, of course, is that not all bikes have the same tube sizes.
I could imagine a prolific market on E-Bay for trading the wrong clamps and reselling the excess parts.

roccobike

This subject comes up from time to time and, has been said here, the short answer is yes, but there are a few concerns. If you're planning to upgrade an older aluminum/alloy frame it's fair to note that you can not cold set the frame to 130 like a steel frame. Some are squeamish about forcing a 130 axle into a 126 aluminum frame, but I wouldn't let that stop me. However, there was one type of frame that was bonded. As I recall Raleigh and Univega made them, probably others as well. They had steel stays and forks and alloy main tubes. It's a great idea, I had a couple and they had a very nice ride. Anyway, the rule of thumb with those uncommon bonded frames was don't force fit a 130mm rear wheel in them and don't try to cold set them. I've made the modernization change to several bikes, but never tried it on a bonded frame and don't intend to. Just want to mention that although those frames are not that common anymore.

DSMRob

I don't have my eye on anything yet, I think I am going to spend the next few days looking for something local, I know we have a co-op here that sounds like it carries older stuff. (although I am guessing anything super neat is gobbled up by the employees or volunteers as they come in... might be reason enough to give back and spend some time wrenching.) I am guessing I would be open to any type that's not your run of the mill American. Having not been a race fan in my youth I've never built up a brand loyal per se and I seem to enjoy the lines, paint and welds more than the name. This will be my first build of any kind so I am kinda winging it as I go.

Thank you for your replies,

DSMRob

i had'nt but wow I'm guessing it's going to be a late night again tonight. Thank you for this

squirtdad

So for first build some links that will be a huge techncial help

park tool Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog

sheldon brown Sheldon Brown-Bicycle Technical Information


My suggestion of what to look for is:

80's to 90's lugged steel frame with matching fork (you might find a whole bike and take off the components)

the tubing should be double butted chrome-moly. lots of tubing brands but thin

It has to be a frame that fits you.

Avoid french frames dealing with oddball/brilliant french threads and engineering will drive you crazy for a first build.. (I will get flack for this )

Consider Japanese frames/bike with brands like Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Bridgestone, Pansonic, Centurion, Nishiki.

look at the C&V for sale

check out local craigslist

and of course everyone here has an opinion, so if you find something, post it and you will get input

have fun with the build


and that said if you find something your size and italian....there is something often magic in the ride

DiegoFrogs

You may also have to be creative about incorporating barrel adjusters into the shifting lines. My favorite shifting bike and my singlespeed conversion have no provisions for barrel adjusters whatsoever, but they're from the '60s and '70s. Typically today, they mount to the downtube shifter mounts, which are a bit of an archaic hangover in themselves.

As for spreading the rear triangle, I wouldn't really fret it. I spread my touring frame from 120 to 135 successfully in my first attempt. It took me a couple bottles of liquid courage to be confident enough without worrying so much, but it worked fine. I just strapped together the stays near the bridges and went at it with an iron L-bracket from an old bed frame I had laying around. It's one of the best decisions I've ever made.