Interesting - I though about a Bob Jackson, but do not know much about them as well.

Thank you - absolutely. And this forum is a great place to research Bianchi's.

While you say you prefer relaxed geometry, do you already have a bike with that? Maybe you should get a tight-geometry bike for quick fun rides. This way, you can appreciate both styles.

With that said, one thing I really like about my McLean is that it's fast but clearances are not tight. I have 28mm tires on it, and it could probably take wider. But handling at high speed is quite a thrill. I'm not saying to look for a McLean. They're rare. I'm saying you may want to consider a quick bike that has ample tire clearance.

My Tom Kellogg and Jim Redcay both have space for 32s...the Americans seem to like their clearance back then.

Anyway, see what's out there. Don't limit your search to a list of brands. You might miss an Olympian or something similar. I rode one of [MENTION=148435]aixaix[/MENTION]'s Olympians. It was a rocket!

Thank you all - you have definitely given me plenty of bikes and makers to research.
This may be a November purchase - for a winter project because it will take me that long to get the scoop on all the bikes mentioned.

Thanks. I will check it out.
I do have a very cool Supurbe equipped Peloton if I want to have super quick responsiveness.
My Kona is probably a blend of relaxed and responsive. It is super comfortable on Centuries - but quick and nimble.
But - I gravitate to the touring Treks and my Voyageur - and when its built - probably my drop bar conversion Mt bike.

merckx century is certainly what I would suggest, also. It's going to be more in the range of de rosa or colnago. The Century I had was an amazing frame. I sold it(wish I hadn't, now) because I wanted an all out racing frame. The century, as many of the later steel merckx bikes handled beautifully & could go all day. Merckx Geometry employed a relaxed seat tube angle to smooth out the ride. It varies from model to model, size to size. I put 130 miles of mountains on that bike, in one day. I have never felt as fresh, after such a long, tough ride. On any bike of any material. It truly was a "century" bike.

You mentioned that you would be willing to buy the frame then wait to build it up, that's how I acquired my Italian Bianchi, bought the frameset first about two years ago, and just finished building it in February (actually I haven't shared the finished bike here yet, I need to do that!). Since it sounds like it'll be hard to find the bike you want at that budget I'd recommend this approach

Maybe you can get this guy to ship:

59cm Tommasini Road Bike

The farther back you go, the more relaxed you're going to get, and still maybe get Italian, if that's what you have your heart set on. Someone mentioned Legnano earlier (although I've never seen one bigger than 58cm; and I've looked).

And I know they don't come up often, but my Grandis (probably a 1971) is pretty relaxed. Mine cost exactly $500, as it happens.

There are nice Italian bikes out there for $500. Be patient and you'll find one. If you can live with a 25mm tire, most of the older "race" frames are quite comfortable- a bit more sensitive than the touring bikes you mentioned but at the same time more supple on rough roads. Good luck.

The more I look, the more I like the Merckx TSX. Maybe a 1990.
I know its Belgian instead of Italian.

I am over 200 lbs - and everything I read seems to point that way.

What about this - my first look at eBay.

Vintage Steel Eddy Merckx TSX Frame Fork Campagnolo C C 60cm 1986 1987 RARE | eBay

In Good condition! Chrome in good condition. Some litle spots of use on the frame as I displayed on the pictures.some paint chips.some paint chips are processed with a lacquer pen. See all the pictures and judge for yourself.

• Ready to build the bike of your dreams !!!!
• With this beautiful Vintage steel Eddy Merckx TSX frame fork campagnolo c-c 60cm from the 1986-1987.
• This racing bike had been ownd of a old Belgian semi professional cyclist Eric quina. His name is on the top tube.
• Condition:
• Discription frame
  
  
  
  [TABLE]
  [TR]
  [TD]seat tube c-top
  [/TD]
  [TD]61,5cm
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
  [TD]Seat tube c-c
  [/TD]
  [TD]60cm
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
  [TD]top tube
  [/TD]
  [TD]60cm
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
  [TD]Head tube lenght
  [/TD]
  [TD]175mm
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
  [TD]Spacing rear drop out
  [/TD]
  [TD]126mm
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
  [TD]spacing front dropout
  [/TD]
  [TD]100mm
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
  [TD]number frame
  [/TD]
  [TD]T A4007
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
  [TD]Weight frame and fork
  [/TD]
  [TD]
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [TR]
  [TD]Bottom Braket/Headset
  [/TD]
  [TD]italian threated campagnolo chorus
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]

Some makes we forget about:

Pogliaghi
Chesini
Fiorelli
Fausto Coppi
Rossin
Picchio
Guerciotti
Basso

The top dogs are Cinelli, De Rosa and Tommasini. Build quality is frequently stunning for any of them.

And, yes, Colnago bikes are twitchy. I can't go more than five miles on mine with out it trying to toss me into the ditch.

I bought my Tommasini from that seller last year and it went smoothly for what I thought was a fair price.

Eddy Merckx | eBay
Check this one out. It's a TSX that cycled through a couple of times without clearing the reserve. I put a lowball bid in, because the info was scanty and the pictures were lousy, but I suspect it's a good bike. Maybe you can call the guy, his phone # is in the listing.

Or maybe a Holdsworth?

I have owned a number of Italian "Race" Bike's over the years. Masi's Colnago's and even a Coppi for a brief period. All were pre 1980.
I recently found a 1967 Holdsworth Italia with "relaxed frame geometry" that has become my Grail Bike. It rides like a Rolls and handles like a Mclaren.

Or maybe I'm just getting older.

Thanks to all. Agreed to buy a beautiful, mid 80s, CIOCC frame from a BF member. Appreciate all comments and knowledge. Now I need to study mid 80's Campy groups/prices, etc.

Some sad news, not quite on-topic - my older (1984 or so) Mondonico is no more as of yesterday. We were riding about 16 mph on a Metropark path when a deer crossed 100 feet in front of me. Dear Mrs. Road Fan said "Look, a deer!" So I did. Then as I passed the deer's path, I looked at where the deer came from to see if there are more. A moment later I felt the bike on the grass, headed into a drainage ditch which had large river boulders in it. I hit among the boulders, the bike flipped, and I landed on a boulder on my helmeted head. Both the TT and DT are badly creased. If I get those tubes replaced, I could have it in shape again, perhaps. But my days with that bike are done.

I'm well, nothing broken, no sign of concussion. Shoulder is sore, I have a few scrapes, and I totally fractured a Giro helmet. No other apparent damage on the bike - fork seems good, as do the wheels.

But that's why the helmet was there.

[MENTION=28632]Road Fan[/MENTION] - Sorry to hear of you loss! Glad you are OK. I understand the mixed feelings. Once in awhile I reflect on my significant accident that took out my Le Champion and wonder if I should even ride some of the ones I have hanging for special rides. Then this issue of wearing out dwindling parts without the consequences of injury. Good thing I am over the hill of my life span!

Good!

Probably Super Record, C-Record, and Croce d'Aune would have been relatively common. On my '84 Mondonico I finally opted for Campy 3x10, of mixed grades but mostly Chorus. It worked perfectly.

Thanks! I do have other bikes, including another Mondonico. This one has ELOS tubing, and in tryouts so far it's better than the first, but it's a little bigger and I'm trying to accommodate that. I was very well-adjusted to the first one.

Glad you found your Ciocc, but some general comments on this one. I'm interested in trying a Merckx geometry, but not with TSX tubing. It was a thick-walled tube, more so than SL which was 9/6/9. It would make a stiff bike, probably stiffer than I would want. I could see a strong racer needing this tubing, especially in a large frame like this.

Wow! Very sorry. Glad you are not injured more seriously.

I'm reasonably sure what was written here about TSX is inaccurate as far as thicker walled. It's thinner walled than SL, and even SLX was, with more of the rifling reinforcing the tubes. As memory serves it was about the same weight, if not a bit lighter. The main reason it's not regarded that well is because it wasn't around for long...quickly replaced with the Nivachrome tubes. Basically it has the rifling SLX has throughout the tubes. Miyata did similar stuff with some of their tubing.

It's rep was as being stiffer than SLX, but I doubt most folks could tell it from SLX blind folded (another reason it didn't sell that well or long).

Edit - it's between SLX and SL weight...and it's thinner walled:

https://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/col...umbuschart.htm