My bike is obsolete and can't be fixed any more.
07-10-15, 01:04 PM
#51
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I was out on a ride last week and an older gentleman was admiring my bike. He told me he had a Condor track bike that he used to ride everywhere, and would still ride it but the tubular tires were shot and he didn't want to change the rims and couldn't get new wheels that fit the frame.
I am always amazed that so many people simply refuse to spend an ounce of effort to do any research. That is not to say that there are shops that don't want to work on older bikes, but it is always the shop's fault especially if they need to try to fit a narrower dropout width and the customer wants it to be the same setup that he has now.
If this were in the 70's or 80's pre-internet, it would be a different story, but the web is loaded with so much information.
John
07-10-15, 01:19 PM
#52
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Bikes shops vary, all bikes can be serviced but I think it comes down to different generations of folks.
Old timers may or may not have parts but have survived high and low economic times. Can't say exactly why but guessing those shops seem to keep a lower stock on new bikes because they don't buy into the manufacturer sales management hype. They probably own their inventory, pay up front or minimal floor plan arrangements. Fewer and farther between, they die off, family not carrying it on, hard to find new ownership, etc..
Even if they don't have parts I need, sometimes will let them order from Merry Sales or other. No biggie, are decent folks who appreciate and share the same interest. Occasionally I drop old parts off to them where I could probably profit from, but then again most let me have free digs thru the old bins. Not about the cost but more as a fun and recpricate thing, but they know I'll refer them as well.
Whereas big name outfits with new storefronts, new owners buy into the factories thinking a franchise will make them rich. The later has some overhead and needs to push sales. So in a way, I don't blame them wasting time with a customer all emotional about some old bike. There's some respectable new bikes for Joe Average in that $500-700 range and for most older bikes, full tune, consumables replaced is going to be $250+. But getting back to new bikes and parts for a moment, even some of the parts prices are over list! Wanted a spare derailleur / dropout hangar for a Giant and was quoted $39! Worse, they had 50 bikes in stock using the same hangar part..... but NO REPLACEMENT PART IN STOCK. And lets not begin to discuss dual control levers, the number one broken component. They don't fix them but rather replace the entire assembly for a tidy sum! See ya.
The next issue is the bike owner. The majority of cyclist today simply don't service their own nor care to know. So be it. Just the same, the DIY for anything mechanical is rare today. Throw away society and where manufactures have factored a limited lifespan. Without that, they wouldn't survive.
I happen to enjoy older bikes, always learning from others but could just as well relate to a purchaser of new, not bother to spend time wrenching and rather clock the miles in. Frankly, I'm way out of 'tune' and wouldn't know how to fully service a new high-end bike and components. Sometimes jealous of those who can afford $8-10k bikes, they ride and leave the Visa at the store for servicing. lol
My only peave is a shop who butchers or ruins someones nice old bike. I know of one shop (old name, bought out and has multi locations), intentional or not are a bunch of idiots. From the management on down to the cashier (how about a 'thank you for the business?' Jeez.) The old established name must be the only reason people bear them.
A friend of mine trusted them in redoing a few of his vintage lightweights. Higher end and Campy equipped. I don't want to ramble on but it was shameful what he rolled out the door with. Then, on two different occassions, I went to two of their stores to buy BASIC consumables. The attitude and disregard floored me. Funny though as they had very little parts or even tires in stock for their NEW bikes! Good riddance.
Old timers may or may not have parts but have survived high and low economic times. Can't say exactly why but guessing those shops seem to keep a lower stock on new bikes because they don't buy into the manufacturer sales management hype. They probably own their inventory, pay up front or minimal floor plan arrangements. Fewer and farther between, they die off, family not carrying it on, hard to find new ownership, etc..
Even if they don't have parts I need, sometimes will let them order from Merry Sales or other. No biggie, are decent folks who appreciate and share the same interest. Occasionally I drop old parts off to them where I could probably profit from, but then again most let me have free digs thru the old bins. Not about the cost but more as a fun and recpricate thing, but they know I'll refer them as well.
Whereas big name outfits with new storefronts, new owners buy into the factories thinking a franchise will make them rich. The later has some overhead and needs to push sales. So in a way, I don't blame them wasting time with a customer all emotional about some old bike. There's some respectable new bikes for Joe Average in that $500-700 range and for most older bikes, full tune, consumables replaced is going to be $250+. But getting back to new bikes and parts for a moment, even some of the parts prices are over list! Wanted a spare derailleur / dropout hangar for a Giant and was quoted $39! Worse, they had 50 bikes in stock using the same hangar part..... but NO REPLACEMENT PART IN STOCK. And lets not begin to discuss dual control levers, the number one broken component. They don't fix them but rather replace the entire assembly for a tidy sum! See ya.
The next issue is the bike owner. The majority of cyclist today simply don't service their own nor care to know. So be it. Just the same, the DIY for anything mechanical is rare today. Throw away society and where manufactures have factored a limited lifespan. Without that, they wouldn't survive.
I happen to enjoy older bikes, always learning from others but could just as well relate to a purchaser of new, not bother to spend time wrenching and rather clock the miles in. Frankly, I'm way out of 'tune' and wouldn't know how to fully service a new high-end bike and components. Sometimes jealous of those who can afford $8-10k bikes, they ride and leave the Visa at the store for servicing. lol
My only peave is a shop who butchers or ruins someones nice old bike. I know of one shop (old name, bought out and has multi locations), intentional or not are a bunch of idiots. From the management on down to the cashier (how about a 'thank you for the business?' Jeez.) The old established name must be the only reason people bear them.
A friend of mine trusted them in redoing a few of his vintage lightweights. Higher end and Campy equipped. I don't want to ramble on but it was shameful what he rolled out the door with. Then, on two different occassions, I went to two of their stores to buy BASIC consumables. The attitude and disregard floored me. Funny though as they had very little parts or even tires in stock for their NEW bikes! Good riddance.
Last edited by crank_addict; 07-10-15 at 01:22 PM.
07-10-15, 02:02 PM
#53
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That is true more often than you think. I wish it were not.
Also true at motorcycle shops, body shops, and electronics shops. During my work in insurance fraud, we constantly saw this, especially with TV repair facilities. The LCD trend really has slowed that, but you still see it with guitars and amps, and pianos.
Also true at motorcycle shops, body shops, and electronics shops. During my work in insurance fraud, we constantly saw this, especially with TV repair facilities. The LCD trend really has slowed that, but you still see it with guitars and amps, and pianos.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 07-10-15 at 02:19 PM.
07-10-15, 02:23 PM
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try finding a controller for a 13 year old Fisher Paykel dishdrawer...... only refurbished, no return and still close to $300 it pushes you to buy a new dishdrawer
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(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
07-10-15, 02:29 PM
#55
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Exactly... It's just like in that post that I created about "C&V Bikes are 'Cool' ", and I mentioned various LBS's in town and their viewpoint towards my '85 Fuji Del Rey. Even though mine is only 30 years old, it's still a classic and parts are easily available for it.
07-10-15, 02:35 PM
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We are discussing this on the internet. Parts are available on the internet.
I can still remember thinking about older bikes before the internet, but only briefly.
High tech has made old tech viable once again, even while it kills the C&V shops.
I stopped riding around 1992 when I hit a dog on my '88 Technium, killing it, and my desire to ride, for quite a while. I was not even aware of STI or Ergo shifting. Riding was a cross-training endeavor; I had one pair of cycling shorts and a white Bell helmet with the red stripe. I was not scanning classified ads looking for bikes, and bike shops were the only game in town. I looked no further than the tag on the handlebars. Parts? J&B or nothing, in my town.
14 years later or so, I cranked up the Gateway, signed up on eBay and searched for an Ironman. Getting an '88 for $135 plus $50 shipping, already upgraded to STI shifting and an 8/9/10 rear freehub, well, the fire was pre-lit. (I actually had to take it to a bike shop, Dee Moore's, to get the shifter "fixed." She showed me how to shift an STI and that was the fix.) She's forgotten more about fixing bikes than I'll know, but it still took a couple of years and some examples before she truly believed that "you can put 10-sp stuff on that steel frame." As a shop owner, you moved with the times, sold what you stocked, and kept up. Looking backwards is not all that profitable, unless you have a volume of customers who are willing to pay for bike servicing.
I submit, even with the obsolescence chatter from shops and mechanics, that many of us would have far fewer bikes, things to say about them, and people to say them to, were it not for the same medium that is pounding many "classic & vintage" bike shops into extinction. It is a dull irony. I've seen some adapt, some not. A friend of mine is turning more wrenching hours and more parts/bike revenue in his garage, with no overhead, than the shop that folded near here, not long ago. He considered buying the shop, but now, not at all.
I can still remember thinking about older bikes before the internet, but only briefly.
High tech has made old tech viable once again, even while it kills the C&V shops.
I stopped riding around 1992 when I hit a dog on my '88 Technium, killing it, and my desire to ride, for quite a while. I was not even aware of STI or Ergo shifting. Riding was a cross-training endeavor; I had one pair of cycling shorts and a white Bell helmet with the red stripe. I was not scanning classified ads looking for bikes, and bike shops were the only game in town. I looked no further than the tag on the handlebars. Parts? J&B or nothing, in my town.
14 years later or so, I cranked up the Gateway, signed up on eBay and searched for an Ironman. Getting an '88 for $135 plus $50 shipping, already upgraded to STI shifting and an 8/9/10 rear freehub, well, the fire was pre-lit. (I actually had to take it to a bike shop, Dee Moore's, to get the shifter "fixed." She showed me how to shift an STI and that was the fix.) She's forgotten more about fixing bikes than I'll know, but it still took a couple of years and some examples before she truly believed that "you can put 10-sp stuff on that steel frame." As a shop owner, you moved with the times, sold what you stocked, and kept up. Looking backwards is not all that profitable, unless you have a volume of customers who are willing to pay for bike servicing.
I submit, even with the obsolescence chatter from shops and mechanics, that many of us would have far fewer bikes, things to say about them, and people to say them to, were it not for the same medium that is pounding many "classic & vintage" bike shops into extinction. It is a dull irony. I've seen some adapt, some not. A friend of mine is turning more wrenching hours and more parts/bike revenue in his garage, with no overhead, than the shop that folded near here, not long ago. He considered buying the shop, but now, not at all.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 07-10-15 at 02:42 PM.
07-10-15, 02:56 PM
#58
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Same here, my garage is for my bikes. Less important thinigs (cars) park outside.
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If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
07-10-15, 03:08 PM
#59
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I often get calls from any of several local shops needing say, an 8-speed-compatible Campag derailer or a 56bcd Suntour granny ring.
If I can't supply the part I can usually inform as to a possible source.
They know not to call me about any Campag freehub threadless axle cones, since I've already made the rounds repeatedly looking for them to no avail.
This reminds me, one shop owes me $50!
If I can't supply the part I can usually inform as to a possible source.
They know not to call me about any Campag freehub threadless axle cones, since I've already made the rounds repeatedly looking for them to no avail.
This reminds me, one shop owes me $50!
07-10-15, 03:10 PM
#60
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At the risk of taking flack, I'll continue the gentleman's response... "And quite frankly I am just too lazy to spend any time researching anything about my bike so I just rely on others. Now if it were about religion or politics, I'll tell everything you need to know."
I am always amazed that so many people simply refuse to spend an ounce of effort to do any research.
If this were in the 70's or 80's pre-internet, it would be a different story, but the web is loaded with so much information.
John
I am always amazed that so many people simply refuse to spend an ounce of effort to do any research.
If this were in the 70's or 80's pre-internet, it would be a different story, but the web is loaded with so much information.
John
07-10-15, 03:22 PM
#61
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The biggest obsolescence problems occur with indexed systems, particularly 9-speed. This is another beauty of friction shift, which adapts nicely to mix-and-match components. Also, friction shift levers last a LONG time, unlike most of their indexed equivalents.
Regarding the comment about not being able to get a 5-speed chain, I use SRAM 8-speed chains on all of my bikes.
Regarding the comment about not being able to get a 5-speed chain, I use SRAM 8-speed chains on all of my bikes.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
07-10-15, 03:25 PM
#62
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Which why I hate the new push for taxing internet sales. I am not always buy off the internet because it is cheaper but because the local shop doesn't stock it. They can order it of course but I still have to wait a week and they will charge me shipping anyway.
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
07-10-15, 03:39 PM
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My bike shop doesn't mind if I supply parts when they are doing repairs, so they don't have to try to find my obsolescent 9-speed gear. I often buy used or NOS parts on eBay and other sources, but always end up buying some new parts from the bike shop as well, when appropriate.
07-10-15, 04:39 PM
#64
Senior Member
don't knock it- i got a free Look kg96 because someone told the guy "nope.. too old, can't be fixed" - and i happened to be passing by when his mother was tossing it in the trash!!$
~$120 in various bits (from the internet and a local store) and it was up and running
~$120 in various bits (from the internet and a local store) and it was up and running
07-10-15, 04:46 PM
#65
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I was out on a ride last week and an older gentleman was admiring my bike. He told me he had a Condor track bike that he used to ride everywhere, and would still ride it but the tubular tires were shot and he didn't want to change the rims and couldn't get new wheels that fit the frame. WTF? thought I. But no, that's what the bike shop told him. They told him the hub spacing on old bikes is different from what they sell now.
And yesterday I was talking to a young guy, early 20's, who has an early 90's Bianchi that he can't get parts for. That's what the bike shop told him. WTF?
And that's just anecdotes from the last week. I can't tell you how many times I've had people tell me something like this. That is, I have this old bike I love but the bike shop can't get parts for it.
Do the bike shops really believe that? Are they really unable to work on bikes they didn't sell, or do they just have a "sell him a new one!" policy? Whatever it is, it's a disservice to the customer, and I can't imagine it does the industry any good in the long run.
Do you encounter this as well?.
And yesterday I was talking to a young guy, early 20's, who has an early 90's Bianchi that he can't get parts for. That's what the bike shop told him. WTF?
And that's just anecdotes from the last week. I can't tell you how many times I've had people tell me something like this. That is, I have this old bike I love but the bike shop can't get parts for it.
Do the bike shops really believe that? Are they really unable to work on bikes they didn't sell, or do they just have a "sell him a new one!" policy? Whatever it is, it's a disservice to the customer, and I can't imagine it does the industry any good in the long run.
Do you encounter this as well?.
ahem,
the shop run by children? Out here out LBS tries to do whats Needed ..track stuff is still abundant, even more so with fixie hipsterisim, just get whatever stuff is made now .
You don't give up when the boat motor stops running in the middle of the Ocean . even if it was made in the 50's
Last edited by fietsbob; 07-10-15 at 04:56 PM.
07-10-15, 05:31 PM
#66
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My cousin has a late 80's Haro MTB he rode for years that he wants to put back in service and was told "Can't get parts". He asked me about and I told him to bring it over and we'd make it like new, better than new in fact. He's dropping it off Sunday, all the parts are here or on the way. I think most LBS's don't want to be bothered with the old stuff. That and/or vintage bike owners must be like Studebaker owners who only half jokingly refer to themselves as "CASOs" (Cheap Ass Studebaker Owners). I know I am, I used to be a CASO too. 
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07-10-15, 05:45 PM
#67
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07-10-15, 07:13 PM
#68
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The lead mechanic at a shop near me told me in no uncertain terms that working on a bike that was over five years old was a total waste of time and money, as the technology has improved so much.
5 speed chain? KMC Z33, under $5 last time I bought some, at Niagara Cycle. They also have freewheels from 5 speed and higher, wide selection of cassettes, etc.
On nine speed STI, I have switched to Micro Shift, they are quite affordable and seem to be durable so far.
5 speed chain? KMC Z33, under $5 last time I bought some, at Niagara Cycle. They also have freewheels from 5 speed and higher, wide selection of cassettes, etc.
On nine speed STI, I have switched to Micro Shift, they are quite affordable and seem to be durable so far.
07-10-15, 08:15 PM
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At least as far as MTB, he's not wrong. I just tweaked my SLX 9 speed rear derailleur and none of the online stores have replacements. LBS quoted me $90. I can get XT but will cost much more than 10 speed. All the higher end stuff will disappear soon. For that matter, try and buy higher end 9 speed brifters.
Shimano SLX RD-M662 SGS 9-Speed Rear Derailleur
07-10-15, 08:30 PM
#70
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If it is on my bike and I use it, it is not "obsolete". Out of production, unavailable at retail, uncommon maybe but obsolete? No.
07-10-15, 09:19 PM
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inkandsilver, you mentioned something about 9 speed rear derailleur, Does that mean your cassette is 9 speed? and does that mean my bike is way more obsolete than yours as it is 8 speed rear cassette and three speed crankset. I am in absolute shock considering my bike chain is still good, my gears are not worn out, and it runs smoothly. Sadly, today I found out that my bike bearings in both crankset and rear axle is worn out, so It will need an overhaul. Luckily, I can repair it myself, I just hope the store actually carry the parts I need to fix it to keep it running for a couple more years.
W
W
07-10-15, 09:29 PM
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OK, I've tried going into a few of the shops around here and asked for a 27" tire and was snickered at, or offered a cheap Chinese tire at best. Same goes so asking about a 27" rear wheel that would take a thread-on freewheel. How 'bout a 5-6 speed chain? Or heck even a 6-speed freewheel other than the cheap Shimano TZ-20. Friction derailleur? No to any of the above. "Oh, we can order one" (yeah, so can I).
Only two of the nine shops I went to had a bin of 'old parts'.
Classic Mustangs are collector cars which have a HUGE aftermarket following. Try a quarter panel for a 71-73 Cougar - which is essentially the same car as a 71-73 Mustang under the skin. How 'bout a throttle cable for a '89 Crown Vic or '81 Tempo - or a wheel opening trim for the same? They made tens of thousands of those cars but just about everything is 'obsolete'.
Only two of the nine shops I went to had a bin of 'old parts'.
Classic Mustangs are collector cars which have a HUGE aftermarket following. Try a quarter panel for a 71-73 Cougar - which is essentially the same car as a 71-73 Mustang under the skin. How 'bout a throttle cable for a '89 Crown Vic or '81 Tempo - or a wheel opening trim for the same? They made tens of thousands of those cars but just about everything is 'obsolete'.
07-10-15, 10:13 PM
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We inherited Grandma's Kirby vacuum cleaner years ago. It came with all the attachments, paint sprayer, meat grinder, things you'd never imagine you could attach to a vac. One day the belt broke and the local vacuum guy told dad he couldn't get one any more. Just a plain old belt. Dad threw it away before I could do anything. I was actually living down the street from a Kirby dealer and that model was still in production!
07-10-15, 10:32 PM
#74
Still learning
Why would any sane person wish to prolong the life of an early Ford Tempo, truly not one of Ford's bright stars? The good ones came later from Germany.
07-11-15, 01:41 AM
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Port Angeles, WA
Posts: 7,922
Bikes: A green one, "Ragleigh," or something.
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The good ones came from Schwinn 
__________________
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●
● 1971 Grandis SL ● 1972 Lambert Grand Prix frankenbike ● 1972 Raleigh Super Course fixie ● 1973 Nishiki Semi-Pro ● 1979 Motobecane Grand Jubile ●1980 Apollo "Legnano" ● 1984 Peugeot Vagabond ● 1985 Shogun Prairie Breaker ● 1986 Merckx Super Corsa ● 1987 Schwinn Tempo ● 1988 Schwinn Voyageur ● 1989 Bottechia Team ADR replica ● 1990 Cannondale ST600 ● 1993 Technium RT600 ● 1996 Kona Lava Dome ●