These are Kleins from around 1980.

My Klein used a 27.4 seatpost. Did Cannondale ever use this size? Is it possible that this bike is actually a Klein being passed off as a Cannondale?

Cannondale has been 27.2 since day one, unless newer carbon frames use a larger size.

Looks a bit like this so could well be an early Klein:
Quite very early Klein frame | Retrobike

Same thought here. Doesn't look like a Cannondale close-up.

Yes - agreed it is looking more and more like an early Klein.

Thanks. The BB cable guides are spot-on. TT cable guides, too. I wonder if the guides popping off the top tube was somewhat common and helped lead to internal routing for Klein (one of his/their patents).

Funny, I was just digging through retrobike before seeing your link - got sidetracked in old Klein catalogs and webpages.

Thanks for the help. Many consistencies between this bike and what I'm finding of early Kleins. Fork included - I wonder if a 'ping test' would tell of the 'boron fiber bonded to inner side of Columbus fork legs and outer side of chainstays' mentioned in the retrobike link above. Wonder if there's a dove on the steerer tube.

I'm maybe 2-3hrs south of MIT, so that's a close fit (though not quite as close as Cannondale).

Is Jon Rock the painter you're thinking of?
https://www.kleinspainted.com/--fresh...ray-booth.html

Sir-Name, I hope you are having as much fun with this as I am. Jon Rock is the guy. He has been very helpful with my Klein projects in the past. You should run it by him.
It would be cool if you could get in contact with Gary himself.

I will post anything else I come up with.

Looks like a Klein to me!
That would be GRAIL bike for me!

Oh yes, I'm having plenty of fun. Thanks. No idea how to get in touch with Gary, but I'll see what I can track down. I guess the '75 rear der. may not be so far off the mark after all. Curious to see what the lock nuts on the hubs have to tell. Still, at least a five year range of parts currently installed (75-80). Quite the interesting bike, so glad it fits. And this fits my definition of a grail bike as well.

There doesn't appear to be much head tube extension past the top of the top tube; the seat tube extension adds a bit of stiffness and strength at the seatpost (less exposed post/leverage to torque on the seat tube and junction with TT and stays). Is there a 'special' way to measure Kleins as with C'dales? CTC makes the most sense to me.

I would find me some KLEIN transfers for the down tube and call that done!

This is the geometry chart for the Team Super, Kleins Crit racing frame. It is from amy1981 brochure. I hope this helps!

That's great, thank you. Earliest catalog I've been able to find so far is '89. Too recent. My numbers for TT length and wheelbase match the '81 catalog well with the exception of chainstay length. Will have to re-measure. And I'll get around to measuring angles at some point. Time to buy a digital angle-finder and graduate from the folding protractor.

Odd that the retrobike link above with an early example very similar to mine mentions having a serial number. One has not surfaced yet on mine. From what I've found so far, early Kleins have the serial number on the underside of the rear dropout, and they show through the fairly thick 'Durethane' finish (finish/paint referenced from '89 catalog). I'll update if I find anything on the steerer tube when I pull the fork.

This bike is very well made (best I can tell through the paint at least). Exceedingly smooth welds. The transitions from the chainstay bridge/web to the surrounding material flows very well, same with the transitions from the dropouts to the stays. Fork rake is pretty to my eye as well.

For this bike having fairly tight crit geometry (curious to compare to my CAAD), I'm surprised that it might fit a 27mm tire. 25 won't be a problem. I suppose that's a product of likely being built somewhere between '75-'79. Tires will be ordered in a few weeks for aging while I get around to a thorough cleaning. I grabbed the same '70s record stem in 120mm, as this one (130/140?) will likely have me stretched out a bit much. I'll throw the black hardware from the original stem onto the replacement - to my knowledge, 3ttt record stems from this era came with chromed steel hardware, so the black bits were possibly added by the original owner - the previous owner didn't touch a thing other than fit. The expander bolt for the stem uses a 7mm Allen wrench - I've only seen these with 6mm.

I'd love a copy of any info on the Team Super (or general info) from your '81 catalog, would you mind? I'll find a way to repay the favor.

The '89 catalog shows a color very similar to mine - Very Fast Red. Can't wait to do my damnedest to make that true.

I would love to find one of these posters:
The Retrogrouch: Priorities: A Cool Old Poster


Thanks again for the help and interest.

This is interesting. The crank arms on mine date to '80, yet some frame details predate these ~'80 bikes. Cable routing at BB & chainstay/rear mech., and dropout-stay treatment are the most obvious. Perhaps the crankarms aren't original to the build, or perhaps the frame was welded in the earlier years, but not built-up until '80+.

I
If you take the photos from the Retrobike link the cable routing detail is exactly like yours. The owner of that bike said he bought his frame direct from Gary when at MIT in 75-76.
I would suggest your frame is from around that period (1975-76) and built up from parts with replacements over the years.
At that time these were frame only deals.

Yes- exactly. The retrobike bike (blue below) is the closest I've found to mine so far. Differences I see:
-DT shift levers bosses/cable guides at headtube
-Chainstay bridge and welds shows a bit better finishing on mine










NR shift lever clamp modified for oversized Klein downtube.

Blue bike & lever clamp pics from: Quite very early Klein frame | Retrobike

Cool looking bike. Out of curiosity, what rims are those?

Thanks. Not sure yet on rims, been looking into the frameset mostly. They are gold anodized tubulars with eyelets and no markings (decals/screening removed or polished out). Best guess so for is Fiamme Gi 8.

In those early days probably no two frames were exactly the same. It look like Klein was struggling with how to adapt shifters to the frame, something that varied thought the history of the bikes.The Poster on Retrobike says hints that was modified later if I read it correctly.

The rear dropouts look the same between yours & the Retrobike also.

It's an early Klein.

No doubt in my mind.