pubcyclist

Does anyone know what make and model frame this is ?

Picked up recently as a fixer upper, the X prefix 5 digit serial is a tough one to track down.
Looking at it I keep thinking it looks like a raleigh paint job, but that may not be original. The dropouts seem less flat/thinner and the lugs seem a bit more ornate than standard raleigh like my other bike a raleigh banana. Its a mystery but will be a fun project

CV-6 

I think we need some better photos if we care to be of any help. Larger for sure. More detail photos. I do see what looks like Campagnolo ends, so you are off to a good start at least.

SJX426 

Welcome. We like lots of detail pics! DO, seat cluster, head tube, Brake bridge, fork crown, BB top and other unique details.

randyjawa 

Also, bottom bracket width, seat post diameter and rear drop spacing, would all prove useful in the identification process.

juvela

fork is an akisu replacement

this name will be stamped in steerer

fork well below calibre of frame

when fork has been replaced it is wise to do a careful examination of frame front to inspect for collision damage

pubcyclist

Thanks guys some more info :

front hub spacing 90mm (on the replacement forks)
rear hub spacing 125mm and takes a 27x1 1/4" wheel

I'm working on some pictures as suggested will get them uploaded soon.
I plan on stripping it all down (parts and paint) I'm hoping something will be there to help identify it.

Is there anything I should look out for on the bottom bracket ?
Thanks for the heads up on the collision damage juvela, I'll be sure to check that out too before I start building it up.

pubcyclist

Also I've been doing a little googling around looking at catalogues and frame numbering.
The X prefixed Frame Number isn't really recorded anywhere. The position and size of the number looks similar to raleigh or carlton but they don't use an X.
the only reference to X prefixes I've found is this from classic lightweights Hobbs of Barbican pages:
"Post-war Hobbs, like most other manufacturing companies, were required to export as a pre-requirement to being allowed materials to sell on the home market. Export frames appear to have frame numbers pre-fixed with the letter X. Thus an all chrome Blue Riband road frame, which has spent most of its life in the Rockies, is numbered X3005."

This doesn't help that much, I guess if it does mean 'export' the X could be applied to many manufacturers and the example they give is 4 digits where this frame has 5.
Dawes seem to have lost all their records of pre 90's frame numbers so maybe thats a possibility ?
You see loads of bikes from the 70's and 80's with those Prugnat 62d style lugs online too, so that seems like a dead end unless maybe they are marked under the paint (looks like a respray especially because the headset doesn't match) which could tell us if they are copies or original ?

Looking forward to getting the photos and measurements out there, thanks again guys.

juvela

fork spacing would likely have been 100mm when new

90mm would seem to indicate a "modification"

there are some vintage british hubs which are 89mm front width

possible that someone has coldset fork to accommodate such a hub...

pubcyclist

some more measurements :
68mm bottom bracket shell
190mm head tube
Headset looks like it will take a 22.3mm quill (standard 1 inch headset ?)
Its got a replacement Shimano 118mm spindle bottom bracket in there so I'm guessing its british threaded, looks like the plastic side has been damaged so I'll need to check the threading is ok.

pubcyclist

juvela

noticed one small thing which is slightly unusual and might potentially advance an identification.

where the stays meet the dropouts the seat stay is domed while the chainstay is blunt/open. usually a frame will exhibit the same detail here for both types of stays. you might wish to compare this to known frames of barbican heritage should you still suspect this marque.

seat binder is a gripfast which supports a british provenace.

keep in mind that braze-ons may be later additions so do not let them influence date estimates until more is known.

ramzilla

I don't know about the frame but, the front forks look a lot like something that belonged to a Fuji.

dddd

Seatpost clamping nut is on backwards...

pubcyclist

I took the fork off over the weekend and as ramzilla suspected its a made in Taiwan replacement made by Lung. The headset had some plastic pieces too but both the headset and fork look newer than the frame. Could it be the frame is a made in taiwan too ? maybe that would explain the odd dropout ends and mismatched lugs on the bottom bracket and top tube ?
I'm going to carry on stripping the paint off and will post some more picks, I haven't come across anything on the net yet that looks similar, I'm discounting the Hobbs angle they look a very different build, although I guess the X prefix frame number could mean for export just some other company ?
One other thing I noticed was on the mudguard bar behind the bottom bracket there was a bit of electricians tape wrapped around. I thought taking this off might reveal something nasty and rusty but it was ok, its just there to cover a hole for attaching the mudguard which could get full of gunk, this is a weird fitting to me on most bikes this bit is a solid tube isn't it ?

juvela

one occasionally sees tape on chainstay bridge to hold lighting wire in place.

pubcyclist

Slight setback getting the frame stripped and photographed, turns out the bottom bracket's plastic cup has perished its one of those *** sealed units with plastic cups both ends. The drive side is now pretty stuck, looks like I need to drill it out or blow torch it - so I'm holding off putting anything flammable on there like paint stripper lol

Interestingly there are some forum posts out there with raleighs from the mid to late 80's that have the same type of bottom bracket things like the Raleigh Road Ace, which look like a pretty similar build to this bike. The bottom bracket could have been replaced of course and there are no rivet holes for a raleigh head badge, so the mystery continues.

Michael Angelo 

Seat lug ears are crushed and has no washer under the nut.

pubcyclist

Thanks Michael Angelo, I'll check the post fitting and bolt-holes out before painting.

pubcyclist

so I finally got round to melting the plastic bottom bracket out with a blow torch, a quick stamp over a brick and job done !
On closer inspection the thread on the bb looks damaged, I think someone has had this problem before.
I used the blow torch on the seat lugs too, along with a chisel to spread it back into shape.
Measuring the seat post is tricky without the proper tools but I tried a 27.2mm post and a 27mm post and both are too large, measuring the corrected seatpost-hole it looks like a 26.something I'll need to try a 26mm post when I can pick one up, maybe I can use that with a shim ?

I suppose this could be a clue as to the maker ? looking at sheldon browns seat post size database, there seem to be very few 26's quite a few french and italian 26.2mm and a whole bunch of 26.6's including Dawes. With having to reset the crushed lugs it could be any of these.

fietsbob

Its a Bike frame . just build it up and ride it.

A Non butted 0.9mm wall seat tube will leave 26.8mm ID thicker wall tube it will be less..

oddjob2

Drive side cup is left hand thread so crank to the right to loosen. I had a stuck one last week. The issue is the Shimano cups are shallow so the Park BB tool will come bouncing out. So I bought an 8mm X 1.00 pitch bolt, bolted the shimano tool to the bottom bracket, and used a 12" crescent wrench. No problema.

Wildwood 

The thinning of the lugs at the top tube would suggest someone took time to make this frame.
What I try to do with an unknown frame is build it up quickly with whatever is in the parts bin and ride it a few times. Lets me know if it tracks straight, handles decently, etc. Also based on the ride, it tells me how I might want to build it.

pubcyclist

haha will do, now I got the bb out I can move on with the paint job and build

fietsbob

Have the BB 'Chased and Faced', in a Pro Bike Shop, after the paint Job comes Back..

pubcyclist

I'm missing a few parts to test it out, I'll need to check out the fork spacing on some 700 wheels and get a new threadless bb before I can paint it. I'm going for black and gold, keep it simple. It does seem like a nice frame though its got noticeably thinner tubing walls and feels lighter than my other bike a gas pipe raleigh banana.