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What is it ???

Old 10-16-15, 02:08 PM
  #1  
Jeffhop21
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What is it ???


Hi all I'm new on here and don't really know what to to but here goes.
I recently brought this bike. It was advertised as a Mercian or Hetchins but I'm not sure. I know it's high end. It has a beautiful frame with Early Nervex pro lugs. The stem and bars are GB (map of England) the calipers are GB courier 66 centre pull. Everything else is campagnolo.
Please any help would be great.
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Old 10-16-15, 02:13 PM
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What's the seatpost diameter?
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Old 10-16-15, 02:19 PM
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good for you to try to refurbish this one, as it looks like a nice enough frame.

strange that it has brazed dt shifter bosses but no on-frame derailleur hanger.

hopefully someone notices the serial format on the bb shell.

what size is that campy seatpost?
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Old 10-17-15, 12:39 PM
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I can't entirely make out what's stamped on the nervex BB shell, but typically that's NOT a serial number, but rather the Nervex part number and all those numbers describe the angles of the 4 sockets for tubes/stays by angles and minutes, maybe even seconds. There could still be an additional serial number stamped on the bike somewhere, maybe elsewhere on the BB shell.
BTW, a frame that uses a nervex BB shell generally means the builder lavished a little more cost into the product since those shells added more cost to the Nervex Pro package. Most builders just bought the Nervex lugset without shell and used a cheaper BB shell, maybe a cheaper forkcrown, too.
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Old 10-17-15, 01:49 PM
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I don't think it's a Mercian or a Hetchins, but one of many early 60s UK builders. Likely someone's "Gran Sport" model given the Campy components. Looks to be of reasonably good quality.
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Old 10-17-15, 03:08 PM
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Nice-looking frame! Can't help with the identification, but I would love to see it restored. Subscribing!
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Old 10-17-15, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by eschlwc View Post

strange that it has brazed dt shifter bosses but no on-frame derailleur hanger.
this is partially due to when built. droputs are likely marked agrati. many quality british builders used these forged dropouts without a tab in the 1950's and in the early 1960's. this was done because the campag pattern tab was not yet the industry standard.
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Old 10-17-15, 05:45 PM
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It looks to me like a repainting was inflicted upon it. I also see rust, and if it were mine, I would seriously consider repainting it. If you do decide to do this, sanding away paint layer by layer might conclusively solve the mystery.
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Old 10-18-15, 05:21 PM
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any evidence of headplate mounting holes in headtube?
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Old 10-19-15, 09:22 AM
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It's a quality frame - no doubt of that. It looks like the original paint was white, since the lower end of the fork steerer tube is white. If there is a lubricating port on the non-drive side of the BB, the frame is likely early 60's, if no oiler port, it looks like late 60's

Have a close look at the fork steerer tube, there should be a serial number on the fork steerer as well as the identical number stamped on the frame; under BB, NDS outside rear dropout or inside of rear dropouts.

All the parts indicate the 1960's.

In the 50's to about 1978, there were only two types of tubing, professional level Columbus, Vitus, Reynolds and seamed straight gauge "gas-pipe". If you can fairly accurately measure (+- 25g) the weight of the frame, you can determine whether it's gas-pipe or pro-level tubing. If below say 2200g its Pro-level and above likely gas-pipe. However, looking down the seat tube or head-tube may reveal a seamed tube.

The thinness (at least apparent thinness in the photos) of the head lugs indicate a "name" maker.

It screams British made to me.
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Old 10-19-15, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Not really...
"strange to me" then.

as in, i've never seen a frame like that.
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Old 10-19-15, 01:57 PM
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That RD photo should be someone's avatar
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Old 10-26-15, 12:51 PM
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The seat post size is 26.8. I've found a number on BB which is 1292 when I eventually got the forks out the number was written on paper and stuck on tube
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Old 10-26-15, 01:03 PM
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What's the last picture? It looks like a piece of wood?

If you are planing on restoring this bike, I'd recommend stripping the paint and carefully examining all the tubes for pin holes which would indicate that the tubing has rusted through.

Tube replacement becomes expensive and I would only do that to a frame that had some historical value.

I've seen that problem on lots of older bikes that appear to have been under water for a while....

A 26.8mm seat tube usually indicates heavy gage butted or straight gage main tubes...

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Old 10-26-15, 08:05 PM
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Quite possibly frame # 1292 is a 1962 or 63 Holdsworth Hurricane. If you look on Kilgariff's site and go to the models there are pics of a '61 Hurricane and catalogs for '61 and '64. According to Classic Lightweights article Nervex lugs (and I'm no expert but also what look in pics below like Oscar Egg Super Champion lugs to me) were being used for the Hurricane with plain gauge 531 tubing until '64 catalog when it appears the model had gone to the Prugnat lugs. One of the '58 pics shows a braze-on for a down tube shifter. The Hurricane did come in a 10 speed model in early 60's. Perhaps this frame's lamp post and rear brake cable stops have been removed or perhaps absence were "special" build features. As previously noted it would be interesting to know if there is an oiler port on non drive side of BB? Some clearer pics of lugwork would be helpful as well. Head badge holes and spacing?

There do seem to be 4 digit Holdsworth serial numbers appearing back in 62 or 63 when for some reason, according to Kilgariff, the former serial sequencing was abandoned. See True Adventures of the Retro Grupetto: Holdsworth Italia and read towards bottom of page where he gives evidence for this. So during period '62 to 64 numbers appear a trifle "murky". The initial sequencing appears to have been restarted again by 1965. (At least my own April '65 Typhoon has a 29953 number which appears to again follow former sequencing)

So... using a combo of frame features and serial number, frame 1292 could very well be a 62 or 63 Holdsworth Hurricane. Interesting and a fine frame, well worth preserving. As Chas notes, hopefully tubes are intact.

Borrowed '61 catalog and pics from Kilgriff's site:


My 2 cents,
Doug
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Last edited by allend; 11-08-15 at 06:01 AM. Reason: pics
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