PX-10 headset replacement
 

Does your standard PX-10 steerer with a stronglight competition headset generally fit a Nuovo record headset? 38/39.4mm stack height with the stronglight (plus a Mafac hanger), 42mm with Nuovo record.

Several things to consider...

First off, what's wrong with the Stronglight V4 Competition headset on you PX-10? Or... why do you want to change to Campy?

The Stronglight V4 headsets were bullet proof. Since 1973 I've only seen 1 or 2 that failed due to indentations or other modes (Don't even go into brinelling, false brinnelling, fretting, spalling, indexing and other misused, misunderstood terms. Without analytical testing in a lab, the only thing that can be said is that the headset bearing races are indented). ;)

During that same time I've seen many dozens of Campy lower headset cups and crown races with indentations.

In the mid 70's we had so many problems with Campy NR headsets indenting that we took a large number of different brands of headsets to a friend's machine shop and had the Rockwell Hardness tested. Stronglight, Zeus, Shimano, Tange and a few others were ~60 Rc hardness. Most of the Campy lower race parts were under 50 Rc!!!


One problem you will run into switching to a Crampy headset is you will probably not have enough threads for the top lock nut if you use any spacers or a center pull brake cable hanger. You should have at least 5 turns of threads.

Here's a Motobecane (actually Motoconfort) frame that someone replaced the Stronglight V4 headset with a Campy. Notice there are only a few threads of engagement on the steerer. With that few threads, the top lock nut will keep coming loose!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=514476


Another thing, the bearing seat on your PX-10 is 27.0mm. The crown races on Campy headsets are 26.4mm. The bearing seat can be cut down but the chrome plating tends to chew up the cutters on the facing tools. The best way is to grip the steerer in the chuck on a lathe and turn down the seat with a carbide tool bit.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=514477


Headset Stack Height:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=514479 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=514480

Details on how to figure Stack Height. Please read descriptions below the pictures in the Flickr album:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/282672...57625424641013


PS, I have Campy headsets on a lot of bikes... But I generally prefer other brands.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=514482


verktyg :50:

Chas. retrogrouch

Thanks for the informative post. I suppose I was of the mind that everything 70s campy record is the best and was considering throwing money at my bike. Seems like there are a number of issues with the swap and I really don't need to do it.

i put a campy super record headset on my moto. the campy french threaded headsets are so expensive. but i found just the two french threaded pieces for cheap and combined it with an english set for the rest. i did have to mill the fork crown to standard. looks so good.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5718/...45405039_b.jpg

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=514502

Image is everything... snark, snark... :lol:

The hardened steel bearing races in Campy Super Record headset were much harder than in NR headsets. I've not seen many (if any) with indentations.

verktyg :50:

Chas.

The knowledge and experience of BF members such as as Chas, T-Mar, Scooper, and others never ceases to amze and astound me. :thumb:

The only part I haven't replaced on my PX10 is the Stronglight Competition V4 headset.

[MENTION=61614]verktyg[/MENTION] - Thanks for the clarification of Rc readings on the Campy HS's! Great reference info. Consider adding it to the Velobase NR HS description.

Good chance you might also need to dress the frame too to get a Campagnolo to work.
For budget, I purchased a French threaded steel headset from VeloOrange that is quite serviceable. The various stronglight headsets are quite pricey on auction more often than not.
I agree with Chas, the independent races could be heat treated with better control on the Suoer Record headsets, trouble was that the fork crown race was thinner in section and I found them to be more fragile. I fortunately am not that heavy and always try to ride "light" , lifting weight off the saddle to let the bike jostle freely under me when I see a rough patch, I think that goes a long way in saving equipment.

Interesting point, Repechage. I always did that too. Not sure why,
but it felt like it saved my physical equipment as well.
In general, I mean...;)

Reading Chas's response I think my jaw dropped open.
Phew!

+ 1; that was really good info.

We had a lot of problems with campy NR headsets in the shop I worked in on the 80s. The roads were rough (New Orleans has some of the worst roads in the US) and headsets got chewed up. Roller bearing headsets like the stronglight A9 took care of that problem.

It looks like they're still available ??, http://www.amazon.com/Stronglight-Cl.../dp/B002WMRJQ2

Here is a good thread on roller bearing headsets:

The Retrogrouch: Roller "Needle" Bearing Headsets

I may have to pick one up for a project I am working on.

Be advised that the new Stronglight A9 headsets being sold out there for under a hundred bucks do not have roller (sometimes called needle) bearings. Insread, they have sealed ball bearing cartridges....

I'm trying to wrap my head around "riding light", not looking for an argument. It seems to me that by lifting off of the saddle you are shifting your weight forward and that can't do your headset any good. Am I wrong?

stack height and velo orange hs
 

Hi again Chas..I used to ask you questions re my gitane tour de france. I finally found a px-10 frame and fork. I was looking at getting at getting a light headset for the px-10 to lower it's overall weight (think it is 2200 grams vs 2000 or so for my colnagos etc). I ride all my bikes and I like to be faster than the guys on their carbon bikes.

The Velo Orange headsets are about half the weight of a stronglight competion hs and are lowcost and new. I think the stackheight of the velo orange is 41 mm and the stronglight is 39. I am going with campy long reach calipers so I won't be using a cable hanger. Sans cable hanger should the velo orange be the right stack height? ps...are the stackheights on stronglight A9s ok for a px-10 (they are a bit pricey though)?

half hoods and bar tape...eddy and tom
 

Hi Chas...I noticed when googling px-10s that Eddy Merckx and Tom Simpson had bar tape wrapped around most of the brake lever bodies of their mafac levers with half hoods. Would seem to make the hoods more practical..as far as durability. I am going to have my tape go around the lever bodies so that the cork tape will add some padding...those half hoods provide no real padding.ps..don't bother suggesting cotton tape...did that and provides zero comfort, but looks great.

AFAIK, Stronglight V4 steel headset are very good headset, and are quite sought after. The high prices they sell for, NOS, kinda gives you a hint that this is the case.

Mafac Levers And Bar Tape
 

This was the standard treatment for wrapping cloth tape around MAFAC levers BITD. One function it served was to keep the rubber half hoods from coming loose at the bottom.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eaaf2411d6.jpg

Cork tape and similar types tend not to sit flat and might have ridges when wrapped around the MAFAC levers (plus look hookie). JMO

verktyg :50:

It's a good bet that Tange has a French headset that will drop onto the PX-10. Granted, they are not made with magic dust. But a frame stiffer and tougher on headsets than a PX=10, will in my experience reliably get 8000 miles from any of the Tanges (another 1-2000 after upsizing the balls one step). Not bad for $30 and they look decent on C & V bikes. You can also mix and match their headsets to get the stack height you need. (The washers and nut of the $8 OEM Tanges are very short. So is the bottom bearing. You will need to seal it, (innertube) or fill the race with marine grease and use a mini fender.)

I like Tanges a lot. Put it in, have it right by the end of the first ride, tweak it once a year and replace/re-ball at 8000 miles. That's it. Hard to beat for $30 and far less sweat of my back than some of the headsets I paid far more for. That said, the roller Stronglight on my Mooney is a pure joy. 25,000 miles and perfect. Never needs anything. Just wish it had steel wrench flats.

Ben

I routinely double up my cotton tape. Use old tape for the first layer. (Doesn't have to be continuous. Only you will know.) Also means that your bars won't show after you wear a hole (as long as you stick to matching colors :) ).

The Stronglight V4 is a very good headset, but its unique bearing races make it very fussy about alignment.

Unless I was looking to build a period-correct restoration, I wouldn't go out of my way trying to source a V4 headset. If you're dead-set on Campagnolo, the Record Pista and Gran Sport headsets have a shorter stack than the Record Strada headsets and serve well where stack height is a limiting factor. And if affordability is a concern, the Tange "Levin" headsets are a good value with a reasonably small stack.

Interesting. That's the first time I've heard this.

The Super Record crown race was much thinner than the Record crown race in order to keep the total stack the same as the Record headset (the aluminum cups needed to be thicker to provide support to the steel race inserts). This made it more delicate that the Record headset crown race.

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/sr-nr-crown.jpg