Hello everyone,

I recently bought an older road bike frame and I'm having trouble identifying it. The guy I bought it from said it's italian, but i have no evidence on that. Special things: the serial number is located on the bottom lug of the headtube, it has a cycle pump rack, it has a little hole on top of the bottom bracket. There's no special drain hole and i can't find any others signs as to what make it could be. Anyone who knows anything?

Pictures below:
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There are guys here with WAY more knowledge than me, but I'll contribute the little I know...

The seatpost binder bolt being placed at the front of the seat cluster is an uncommon arrangement. I don't know who else might've built bikes with that detail, but Bianchi did it in the 1940s and maybe into the early '50s. The pump pegs on the back of the seat tube are also similar to what you might find on some Bianchis of that period.

The hole on the top side of the bottom bracket shell is an oil port. I don't know exactly when those went the way of the dodo, but they were common on bikes built before the 1960s.

What's the size/threading of the bottom bracket? Is it Italian, perchance? (36 mm by 24 tpi, right hand threading on both sides of the frame)

In closeup of fork crown blades appear as if they may be round. Are they round or oval?

Serial number on lower head lug is something which was also done by Bianchi, but a placement employed by other manufacturers as well such as this Maino:



Frame appears to have internal cable routing for rear brake. Is this correct?

The detail photos are helpful. One we do not see is the head.

Fixed cup appears to be Magistroni, perhaps L. Senior or Zenith.

Seat lug looks to be Agrati "SPORT" pattern. Are head lugs this pattern as well?

Dropouts with point at rear are Agrati item nr. 025.8002 and normally found on juvenile models.

Wow, you guys are really helpful! Thanks so far. The fork blades are oval, not round. And yes, it has internal cable routing to the rear.

So what you both are implying so far is, that it might be an old bianchi?

Here comes some more photos:

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I'll get back with the measures of the bb later

Thank you for these additional images.

The second new picture shows the head to be bulge-formed (one-piece). It is made by Agrati and is a pattern called "SPORT" which has the part nr. 000.8056. The seat lug bare, without any form of binder, is also Agrati "SPORT" series and is item nr. 023.8059. Fork ends, while not shown, are likely Agrati nr. 000.8010. Bottom bracket shell looks to be Agrati "SPORT" pattern as well but is not depicted in the catalogue I have. The "SPORT" framebuilding set as a group is item nr. 000.8050/U.

Seat binder arrangement does not make frame a Bianchi. Other manufacturers used this arrangement as well.

Bottom bracket shell will have a width of 70mm and be threaded 36mm X 24TPI.

One variable not as yet mentioned which may potentially advance an identification is serial number format. You mentioned it is located on lower head. If able to post a photo its format may tweak a reader's memory. As to the suggestion of Bianchi-ness the forum has a well established discussion thread on the subject of Bianchi serial numbers you may wish to explore:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ification.html

Through the years the company placed their serials all over the frame. Some spots have included front of seat lug, back of seat lug, upper head lug, lower head lug, bottom bracket shell, dropout, head tube itself, etc.

I actually thought i posted a photo of the serial number. Well, here it is It says "A29006"

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Thank you for this additional picture.

Can see nothing about the frame to rule in or out a Bianchi identity.

It is always possible that the letter A is present because the name of the bicycle begins with that letter.

Suggestion: In your post at the Bianchi serial number thread you may wish to add a link back to this thread so that readers there are able to view all of the images you have posted. Possible one of the Bianchi experts there will see a detail to rule the identity in or out.

If the frame is actually 1974, as stated in another thread, then the chances of it being Bianchi are remote. The serial number format and location are incorrect and Bianchi had moved the cinch bolt to behind the seat lug.

While this location was used by Bianchi in the 1940s and 1950s, all the samples I've seen have used the flared head tube for the integrated headsets.

Didnt Legnano have a similar seatpost binder or was theirs under the top tube.

Legnano did have a seatpost binder bolt in front of the lug, but it was underneath the top tube.

I am not certain of the brand, but I am fairly certain you have an Italian Sport bike. They were made by all the major manufacturers, and many or the minor manufacturers. Typically a straight gauge tubing, they had upright bars, sometimes condorino style. They usually had a single chainring with a 3-5 speed rear, depending on its age. Internal cable routing and pump pegs were also standard on a Sport bike.

The pump pegs behind the seat tube is a good clue. Bianchi had them. Bianchi also had the seat binder bolt on top. And the seat stay attachment says Bianchi. But without an integrated headset, I don't think it is a Bianchi. Also, the lugs aren't screaming Bianchi to me either.

Back to the pump pegs. Behind the seat tube placement ended by the mid 50s. I'm fairly certain it is post war, but I am not certain. My best guess would be right around 1950. But it could be as early as the mid 30s.

Try cruising Paulo's site for an ID. With some time, you can probably find a match.

Bici Classiche

I'm not really shure what an Italian Sport Bike is? a specific type of bike? And paulo's site is that bibi classiche?

As I wrote, a Sport bike has a straight-gauge tubing frame, upright bars, pump pegs, internal cable routing, mostly a single ring up front and a 3-5 speed in the rear. In other words, your bike.

It is not a road bike, it is not a city bike. Consider it an Italian hybrid from 1935-1965. I'd put yours in the middle, 1950-ish.

Yes, bici classiche is Paulo's site. I'd bet you could find a bike their that matches the details of your bike if you want to put in the time.

This was my Bianchi Sport bike.

Bianchi Sport 099 by iabisdb, on Flickr


This was my Frejus Sport bike. The original owner changed the upright bars to drop bars.

1948 Frejus 004 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Okay, thank you everyone for your very helpful contributions to this thread. If we agree it is an italian sport bike frame, any idea to what it could be worth in its current condition?

You guys are just incredible. And that's what keeps me coming back here.

I note the past tense.

Every time I see that Bianchi image I have this tug to own one just for trips to the local coffee house.

The one I really want is an old Masi example I was sent images of... Oh well
I can easily survive without.

That Frejus is totally cool. You will have to tell us about that unique derailleur -- I have never seen a non Cambio Corsa system with a Cambio Corsa style shift lever.

I am showing my bias here, but I am glad a prior owner installed the drop bars and that great double water bottle mount.

Really enjoy those pics IAB

That is not Campagnolo cambio corsa, it is actually a an OMAC cambio sport. Nice in theory, but I never actually got it to shift while riding. You could dismount and shift and it would take up the chain slack.

1948 Frejus 146 by iabisdb, on Flickr

1948 Frejus 149 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Cambio Sport by iabisdb, on Flickr

I've seen that one. I know a previous owner. Probably could track it down. Cost you a fortune of course.

If I had my pick, I'd go with a Cinelli Sport. Technically, I have "dibs" if the owner ever sells.

DSC_0028 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Not the place to ask, but maybe $40-$50. Maybe less.

Oh Wow.....that is amazing....