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Shiny chrome Paramount

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Old 09-12-16 | 06:15 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Metacortex
I don't believe that Schwinn ever used the Crane GS on the Paramount
Not so.
Our shop in excising the miserable OEM Campag boat anchor rear derail and installing a Crane GS to the delight for our extremely unhappy P-15 customers claimed the 1st Fix honors and cases of beer from our Regional Schwinn rep for a fix that proliferated through the dealer network. That was an "Approved" post production Fix we were reimbursed for (aside from the beer).

Subsequent OEM was a re-badged Crane/LeTour model: The camel's nose was under the tent and Shimano was recognized as a viable high quality alternative to Euro brands.

OP: Nice bike!

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 09-12-16 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 09-12-16 | 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DMC707
You fella's who were bike ridin' age back then were tough
My '68 P-13 was geared 52/49 14-24, perfectly normal half-step gearing for the time.
Yes, we were Tough and very good looking...

-Bandera
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Old 09-12-16 | 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandera
My '68 P-13 was geared 52/49 14-24, perfectly normal half-step gearing for the time.
Yes, we were Tough and very good looking...

-Bandera

Most of my older craigslist pick-ups seem to have steep gearing --- even a little Raleigh Technium I found in almost a child's size (48cm) - had 54-42 crankset with a 12-23 rear end

I recall one of the shop keeps in my town in about '93 or so snickering at the stock gearing on my bike at the time - (also a 12-23) -- he stated that such low ratios were fine for recreational cyclists, but if I had competitive aspirations , I need to muscle up a bit and use a 12-20 or 12-21

fast forward to today when even some of the tour Pro's were using 12-28 cassettes and in one case, a 12-32. 12-28 was MTB gearing in the mid 90's
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Old 09-12-16 | 06:57 PM
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Stunning, love it!
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Old 09-12-16 | 06:57 PM
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From: TX Hill Country
Originally Posted by DMC707
Most of my older craigslist pick-ups seem to have steep gearing
Keep in mind that w/5 cogs close ratios for racing were not the same as w/ 10 or 11 cogs and wide range derails.
A 49X26 (a wide ratio post WWII) was a 50GI, we quickly went w/ "sissy gears" of 42X26 low for 43GI for the most difficult climbs. Today >40 years on I have a 36GI low fitted for the same terrain......

How can you tell if a C&V bicycle is an old racing machine?
If the current owner can't hack the gearing........

-Bandera
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Old 09-12-16 | 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Scooper
My December '72 P15 was delivered from the factory with the Crane long cage RD, rebadged as a Schwinn-Approved GT-300 "Le Tour" derailleur...
You may not remember but this came up before. According to an early November '72 Schwinn dealer "News Flash" bulletin the last 600+ '72 Paramounts were held over to be completed in 1973, a figure which given a total of 3,300 Paramounts that year (or about 275 a month) would include more than all of November and December production. This means that your Dec. '72 Paramount wasn't actually built until 1973, which explains why it ended up with the GT-300 derailleur.
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Old 09-12-16 | 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandera
Our shop in excising the miserable OEM Campag boat anchor rear derail and installing a Crane GS to the delight for our extremely unhappy P-15 customers claimed the 1st Fix honors and cases of beer from our Regional Schwinn rep for a fix that proliferated through the dealer network. That was an "Approved" post production Fix we were reimbursed for (aside from the beer).
OK. I'll rephrase my previous statement to say that "I don't believe *the Schwinn factory* ever used the Crane GS derailleur on a Paramount." Dealer installed replacements don't count as factory original.
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Old 09-12-16 | 07:24 PM
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From: TX Hill Country
Originally Posted by Metacortex
OK. I'll rephrase my previous statement to say that "I don't believe *the Schwinn factory* ever used the Crane GS derailleur on a Paramount." Dealer installed replacements don't count as factory original.
There was a very close relationship between the dealers and the factory that we/they relied on "back when".
Stan Natanek was an ever present QC/QA process rock who took feedback from the field seriously, incorporated it into the tech bulletins and communicated to Schwinn purchasing agents ASAP.

When our Fix for the miserable OEM Campag rear derails was quickly implemented in the field Approved spec went to Shimano for the triple rear derail on the P-15, a sea change in component selection for the finest gentleman's bicycle in North America of the era ( or perhaps any).

Thank Stan,

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 09-13-16 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 09-12-16 | 09:35 PM
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Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Originally Posted by Metacortex
You may not remember but this came up before. According to an early November '72 Schwinn dealer "News Flash" bulletin the last 600+ '72 Paramounts were held over to be completed in 1973, a figure which given a total of 3,300 Paramounts that year (or about 275 a month) would include more than all of November and December production. This means that your Dec. '72 Paramount wasn't actually built until 1973, which explains why it ended up with the GT-300 derailleur.
I dunno, Metacortex. The provenance report from Waterford says it shipped in either December, 1972, or January, 1973.

Richard could be mistaken, I guess. I purchased it from the original owner who was a teenager working as a Schwinn Certified Mechanic at his father's shop, Tarzana Schwinn, when he purchased it. He told me it was all original when I drove down and picked it up.

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Old 09-12-16 | 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandera
There was a very close relationship between the dealers and the factory that we/they relied on "back when".
Stan Natanik (sp) was an ever present QC/QA process rock who took feedback from the field seriously, incorporated it into the tech bulletins and communicated to Schwinn purchasing agents ASAP.
I see that kind of communication between dealers and the factory in the Service Bulletins, News Flash bulletins, Reporter newsletters and other documentation I've collected from that era. Stan Natanek was reported to have the "most photographed hands at Schwinn" as he was featured in the official Schwinn Bicycle Service Manual*, which I find to be a fantastic resource when working on all older bikes whether they are Schwinn or not.

Unfortunately Stan Natanek passed away in 2001.

I'll have to check to be sure but I may have seen some sort of bulletin about authorizing free replacements of the Gran Turismo on the Paramounts.The pile of papers is large so I can't promise anything.

*This manual was originally available exclusively to franchised Schwinn dealers, however in 1973 Schwinn discontinued the loose-leaf Dealer's only version and began selling a 2 volume bound version to consumers, a move which upset several dealers at the time.
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Old 09-12-16 | 10:14 PM
  #36  
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From: Santa Rosa, California

Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts

Originally Posted by Bandera
There was a very close relationship between the dealers and the factory that we/they relied on "back when".
Stan Natanik (sp) was an ever present QC/QA process rock who took feedback from the field seriously, incorporated it into the tech bulletins and communicated to Schwinn purchasing agents ASAP.

When our Fix for the miserable OEM Campag rear derails was quickly implemented in the field Approved spec went to Shimano for the triple rear derail on the P-15, a sea change in component selection for the finest gentleman's bicycle in North America of the era ( or perhaps any).

Thank Stan,

-Bandera
Stan Natanek and my dad were good friends for nearly thirty years (until my dad died). Dad had great respect for him, and I think it was mutual.

From Schwinn Reporter, April 1961. This is at one of Stan's classes in Miami.

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Old 09-12-16 | 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Scooper
I dunno, Metacortex. The provenance report from Waterford says it shipped in either December, 1972, or January, 1973...
Exactly. Now you know why there were *two* dates shown, the first being when the frame was built and the latter being when the bike was actually built and shipped. Mystery solved thanks to the News Flash bulletins I've managed to collect.

I must say they have been a wealth of information on various Schwinn anomalies like this.
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Old 09-12-16 | 10:45 PM
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"The finest gentleman's bicycle in North America"

Man Bandera , you are a bit of an orator --- this statement puts the Paramount in the same vein as a vintage Lincoln Continental or something ----

I really need to experience this sometime
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Old 09-13-16 | 06:37 AM
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From: TX Hill Country
Originally Posted by Metacortex
I'll have to check to be sure but I may have seen some sort of bulletin about authorizing free replacements of the Gran Turismo on the Paramounts.The pile of papers is large so I can't promise anything.
Good luck digging.
As I recall we handled the exchange as a warranty issue: Gran Turdissimo in the returns box, credit from Chicago when processed.

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 09-13-16 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 09-13-16 | 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Metacortex
Exactly. Now you know why there were *two* dates shown, the first being when the frame was built and the latter being when the bike was actually built and shipped. Mystery solved thanks to the News Flash bulletins I've managed to collect.

I must say they have been a wealth of information on various Schwinn anomalies like this.
I guess that makes sense, but since it was the 274th Paramount frame produced in December (or scheduled for production in December), I would think it wouldn't be unusual for it to have been shipped in January regardless as the end of December is pretty hectic during the holidays.
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Last edited by Scooper; 09-13-16 at 08:08 AM.
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