Ok, so after a rocky start, I'm back looking at Campy ergo parts to retro-mod my mid 80's Raleigh RacingUSA frame and upgrade from Shimano 600 to Campy Chorus Ergopower. Even after reading what I can, I'm finding that I still don't know as much about Campy parts as I'd like...


I have gathered that the Campy 8sp freehubs are a bit of an orphan so I'm going to leave that alone and look at 9 or 10 speed systems. It seems there's early 9 speed (with the pointy hoods), gen2 Ergopower 9 speed with the rounded hoods and 10 speed with the same hoods but another gear. I'm not really concerned with the number of gears, it's mainly the Ergopower setup I want and to get my first Campy bike rolling.


Are there any concerns with the early 9 speed shifters/parts (pointy hoods / pre-'97)? It looks like they use a different G-spring? Is it still available for spares? Is there anything else that wears out/breaks and would leave me shiftless? Is the shifting on these any better/worse than later systems?


The Gen2 ergo levers seem to be pretty serviceable at least for the moment, and while they might not have the dramatic lines of the pointy hooded ones, the examples I've held do seem to fit my hands. I've found that somewhere in the late '00's Campy changed their cable pull ratio and I've gotta match shifter/derailleur but that seems like something that one can tell the parts at least. Any trouble spots here aside from the G-springs?


Campy 10 speed I'm a bit of a novice on. Somewhere they got rid of the G-springs, so that's tempting but maybe harder to tell if I'm buying parts online? I'd like to stick with the gen2 levers since I don't care for the looks of the latest levers on a lugged frame. Anyways, what's to know on the 10 speed stuff?

Well I'll add my $.02 as an experienced Campy 10 user without a lot of knowledge about what goes on inside the shifter. I have 4 road bikes (almost done with a 5th - cross bike) with Campy Chorus and Record 10, another TT bike with Chorus 10. They are all mix and match parts, all obtained used from other bikes, and they all work great. The only routine shifting issue I get is on a couple of my bikes it takes two pushes on the paddle to get the FD on the big ring. I think the QS system was introduced for crisper FD shifting, that's whats going on my cross bike build now. I did put a QS FD on my time trial bike and it eliminated a problem with balky chainring shifting. Takeaway is I've never sweated the details on which gen is what and it's worked out fine.

At some point Campy 10 went from 6.2 to a 5.9 mm chain , which I believe is UD. IMO that is the most important to match up chain and cassette. I use OEM Record and Chorus 5.9 chains with KMC master links. Other chains like KMC and Wipperman work fine, but I think the Campy chains work better.

Thanks for the info!


One thing I've noticed - on the Campy parts I have handled (admittedly, that's not many), few to none have any part number on them, certainly not the number in the spare parts catalog.


Ok, I get it, the parts are smooth and polished and a piece of art. I do like that, but is there a good spotters guide? I've heard people say that a part "doesn't look like Chorus". My eye isn't so refined yet unless the part has "Chorus" printed on it...

I'm not so good at the nuances either, especially all the variety of C-Record era stuff. Velobase is a nice resource and a couple of other sites have catalog scans. Just like other things in life, if you care and pay attention, you pick up knowledge as you go.

One thing I would add: Don't discount the 8-speed. You just need to find a set of Ergolevers, rear hub, and cassette. After that it's about the same as any other Campy. And I think they are durable. Her 3x8 bike is all Mirage (the bottom level!!), 19 years old, and rides and shifts as easily and consistently as can be. I don't think it's ever had G springs or anything else save tires replaced in that time.

If all you're looking for is the ergo setup, simply use 10 speed veloce ergo shifters. First, make sure your rear hub can accommodate an 8 speed cassette. If so, find an 8 speed shimano cassette. The campy 10 speed ergo shifters will pull the exact length of cable needed to make a shimano rear derailleur shift across an 8 speed cassette properly. You'll get you quick shifting and comfy ergos with fresh cables with not many other changes needed.

I run an 8 speed Campy group on my '94 Cannondale R600 and have never had any issues. I also broke them down, cleaned and serviced them using an instruction guide that I found online. I must have saved that link somewhere.

Indeed. There are a few 'Shimergo' setups that work. I have used 8sp Ergos/RD on a Shimano 7-speed cluster. Same cog spacing. It's a very versatile setup, as 7sp freewheels are a dime a dozen.

I have gone down the Ergo rabbit hole and escaped relatively unscathed. Pointy hood Ergos are a 1992-1998 and were all 8-speed except for 1997-1998 (Record 9-speed) and 1998 (Veloce and Athena). Crossover to the rounded hood Ergos occured in 1998 as Record was redesigned with the new shape for that year (9-speed still). Both 9- and later 10-speed used rounded hoods from 1998 and on.

There is a difference in cable pull for 8s Ergo, "old" 9s (aka pointy hood) Ergo, "new" 9s Ergo (round hood), 10s, and 11s. Shimano does this, too.

For rear derailleurs, the cable pull ratio is simpler: "Old" which is 8s era and "old" 9s era -- "New" which is "new" 9s era to now

This webpage is 1000% percent dynamite for helping out with cable pulls and mix-and-match calculations.

Sheldon Brown's Cassette Cog Spacing is also gold. To be used in tandem!

The hubs and splines are different, kinda like Shimano's Uniglide and then Hyperglide (what we've been using since 1990) only more inconvenient. Employing Shimano cassettes/cassettes with Campy spacing helps, unless you have killer used bike shops close by as you'll be in much better shape then due to selection.

As for internals, all Ergos up until 11-speed use side-specific G-springs and side-specific G-spring carriers. Other than left or right designation, G-springs are the same from 8s through 10s. The part numbers for these internal bits are the same from the low end to the high end, with the exception of Carbon-suffixed Ergos (Record, Chorus) with it's plastic carrier (vs. aluminum for everything else). Heck, even the hood part numbers are the same unless ("Carbon BB" model or "Escape" (single) shift excepted--same outer hood shape, different internal molds). To me, it seems like one is paying only for different letters printed on a brake lever arm. Wow, ok, lots of small exceptions, BUT pretty much, most everything is the same inside.

You will know the Escape shift by the thumb lever only having a little slot to work in the brake hood. The "full feature" as I call it has a huge slot in the brake hood where the thumb lever can travel 120° of rotation to upshift the entire cassette. Always standard on Record and Chorus, in the mid '00s that feature left the lower end Ergos before returning for a little bit. The new 11s hood shape (some Ergos are still 10s, though, with that new shape) has reverted back to the Escape (lower three tiers) and Ultra or normal or "full feature" for Chorus and Record.

In my few years experience with multiple 8s, 9s, and 10s Ergos, the shift feel has gotten increasingly better. 8s have a dead 'spring back' feel when operating the thumb lever while operating properly. 9s downshifts (big lever) are decidedly longer in throw compared to 10s. The general ratcheting system is solid and you pretty much don't botch a shift like you can with Shimano stuff (aka a partial shift). That's nice, as is the immediacy of the shifting result. Move the lever = shifting right now. Shimano has their ka-click which results in a change a split second slower. I like both feelings for different reasons.

I have found that the easiest way to tell that an Ergo needs rebuilding (if only the aft half of it) is if, when I push the thumb lever to shift up and release, I get a bunch of nasty snappy metal-on-metal sounds and a resulting jolt--easy to tell if levers are off the bike not cabled up. The G-springs (2 per side) and for all intents and purposes, the G-spring carrier, are tired and need replacing. Basically, you tried to shift up 3 gears, and the springs didn't catch their ratchets to hold that top-selected gear, and now slide back to where you started. There are videos and instructions on how to disassemble. Take your time, be patient, breathe(!). It's a battle with small parts, and perhaps a cloth covered vice helps a lot.

Also, and finally for now, that first allen-keyed bolt at the back of the Ergo--on 8s/old 9s (pointy hood) Ergos, they are reverse threaded. New 9s and 10s are righty-tighty/lefty-loosy normal affairs.

Hope this helps!!

Wow, thanks for that feedback! Good to know that even the 8s shifters have a common G-spring since it seems to be quite important once it does wear.


I'm not very familiar with ShimaNO shifting systems, only having a set of older RSX STI levers on one bike that I don't ride much. It's laggy on the small lever (probably gummed up) but the throw on the big lever is so long it's hard to downshift while riding in the drops (where I spend most time) Most of my "brifter" experience is on SRAM doubletap and I really love them, but just have that bug to try Campy and their vintage(ish) parts would look great on a lugged frame.


At least it sounds like keeping the right shifters/derailleurs/cable pull doesn't seem as hard as some have made it seem. As an engineer, I get that design changes happen, but I wish they were better published so we could have a great reference like Sheldon's cassette spacing chart.


The bike I'm looking to update started with a 6sp freewheel, so I've actually already picked up a Campy wheelset with the newer 9-10-11 freehub (for $150 shipped from Wiggle, I had to buy!) Yes, the rear dropouts are 126mm, but the 130mm axle squeezes in there OK. The Shimergo setup for a 7sp may be the end of the STI's on another bike though!


I'm seeing what you say about the immediate shift on Campy vs click-release-shift though. I've worked the mechanism but hadn't connected that difference in the operation yet.
You may have me tempted to get to the 10s shifters for a shorter shift throw. Although the shape of the 8s hoods really looks classic. Hmmm... decisions...

RiddleOfSteel's post was quite thorough and helpful.

On the topic of mixing and matching cable pull, I would add this link (which is largely derived from the links RiddleOfSteel shared) that contains a nice table but completely fails to explain the difference between "old" and "new" 9-speed Campy parts:

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycl...ing_Dimensions

This suggests that if you use a "new" 9-speed or 10/11-speed ergo lever with an "old" 9-speed or any 8-speed Campy rear derailleur the result will correctly shift a Shimano cassette of the corresponding number of gears. I find this to be a very intriguing possibility as I have an "old" 9-speed Racing T rear derailleur and a bunch of Shimano wheelsets. I haven't seen any reports of people actually doing this, but I'm going to give it a try.

I've had success with 8-speed Ergo levers and a same era ('97, I believe) Racing T RD shifting 8-speed Shimano or SRAM cassettes that have been respaced to 5.0mm. I use the Wheels Mfg kit for this, but Shimano 7-spd spacers probably work fine, too, for less money. This conversion does benefit from the slightly longer lock ring that Wheel Mfg supplies in their kit.

Big benefits are much greater cog range, price and availability from Shimano/SRAM. It also seems like the Shimano cogs last longer. I mix cogs to get the tooth counts where I want them, regardless of "group" with no detriment in shifting quality.

It just clicked that I've got a few Sachs 7sp freewheels that would thread right on this bike with a bit of respacing/redishing. That may be the ticket.

So, this would be using 8x Shimano-spec 7 speed cogs and spacers on a 8+ speed freehub with the right spacer to make up the right width?

Getting the brifters on the bars was hard for me. Maybe it's because the bars are old and not the expected shape. Getting the cables router was also hard. The rest was easy. In fact, I think mounting the shifters and routing the cables was half of my time in assembling an entire bike. My components:

Record 9-speed hubs, used
Record 9-speed crankset, used
Miche 10-speed cassette, new
Veloce 10-speed brifters, used
Veloce front and rear derailleurs, new

It works fairly well. I still have trouble with the chain line. The drive side crank is almost touching the fixed cup but the chainrings are too far out to the right.

Yes, but it can be 7, 8, or 9-spd cogs, as long as they can be separated into individual cogs (less likely with 9-spd). If riveted together, the rivets can be drilled out pretty easily. More typically they're connected as sold with long skinny bolts with either a small external hex, or tiny internal hex at the back. (The tool that is used to hold chain ring nuts has a socket that perfectly fits those external hex bolts.) The cog thickness is the same for all of those. Difference is in the spacers. BTW, the outer-most cog often has a built-in spacer, but no worries on that since shifting at that end is only affected by the H limit screw. So 8 or 9-spd would be preferred there, since they're skinnier.

What doesn't work with this conversion are cassettes where several cogs are joined on a spider, which is used much more on 9-spd, and on a few 8-spd cassettes.

I've built up a collection of loose Shimano cogs by purchasing used but good condition cassettes at co-ops and used bike part emporiums, and inexpensive new 7-speed cassettes.

Loose cogs and separate lockrings are also available, and I've used those from Miche to fill in gaps in my collection. Typically the Miche lockrings from the linked source below seem to be a bit taller (another thread longer).

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...?category=1569

I have found that lower-end 9- and 10-speed cassettes (Veloce and Centaur at the very least) are all loose/individual cog deals. It isn't until the upper end that you will get cogs grouped on spiders. Spacing for 9-speed cassettes (and 8-speed, too) is the same. Spacing for 10-speed cassettes varies because....Campagnolo. I don't know why--they say it was to facilitate better shifting. The last time variable spacing, to my knowledge, was needed, was on 1980s Suntour 7-speed freewheels. Branford Bike has a chart with the individual spacers and their correct order. The spacing honestly doesn't vary by much. It's certainly nearly impossible to tell just by looking at it.

The pointy hood Ergos do look dashing, and very much at home on classic lugged steel. They also feel nice in the hands. The rounded hoods ones certainly aren't bad--quite comfortable in their own right with great performance--and look good on steel as well.

One note. If you're mixing. Then 2nd gen shifters (round hoods) + 1st gen (8/9s rear derailleur) is supposed to be the best match for the Shimano cassettes (both 9s and 10s).

I've been meaning to build a 9s or early 10s bike. But, I will say that I really like the 11s Campy. It is very comfortable to use.

If you're wanting to stick with 10s, consider the new Campy Centaur 10s (or Veloce).,