Valuation and insurance claim
11-03-16 | 02:07 PM
#1
Thread Starter
do-over candidate
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,776
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From: PNW
Bikes: One of everything and three of everything French
Valuation and insurance claim
My bike was damaged in an accident last week and I'm expecting a call from the other parties insurance. Fortunately I was riding my commuter vs. one of my nicer bikes. Still I want to be fairly compensated. Anyone have advice for me?
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11-03-16 | 02:13 PM
#2
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39,897
Likes: 3,865
From: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
"Fair" value and compensation is almost impossible to define. Start on the reasonably high side, so you have some room to settle for less and still be OK. Then stand your ground.
One of the problems lies in whether fair represents compensating for the loss based on what you paid less depreciation or the value you've already had form it, vs. what it will take to replace it TODAY with something comparable. This is easier with cars where there's a large market and it's easy to find comparables. This is much harder with bicycles.
One of the problems lies in whether fair represents compensating for the loss based on what you paid less depreciation or the value you've already had form it, vs. what it will take to replace it TODAY with something comparable. This is easier with cars where there's a large market and it's easy to find comparables. This is much harder with bicycles.
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Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
11-03-16 | 02:37 PM
#3
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16,174
Likes: 9,550
From: PDX
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
You will need receipts, the more the better. Were you running any cameras and or gps?
11-03-16 | 04:05 PM
#4
Phyllo-buster
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,276
Likes: 2,698
From: Nova Scotia
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
I don't know what type of accident you had. I had a panel van turn left in front of me and I t-boned the side of the van and bent the fork and frame. What worked for me was demanding a replacement bike at a reputable shop in the same 'genre' as the bike you have. Road bike. Doesn't matter that my bike was 15 years old and really not worth much. If they are accepting liability then they are also delighted to not be paying other damages or medical expenses. I got an $800 Lemond Tourmalet for an $80 Norco.
11-03-16 | 04:36 PM
#5
It's MY mountain
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,184
Likes: 4,250
From: Mt.Diablo
Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek
Yeah, insurance companies won't want to haggle with you over small amounts like this... even if your bike is on the expensive side.
If the other party is accepting responsibility and their insurance agrees, here's what you do.
Take the bike to a bike shop that sells the same brand and have them write up an invoice to sell you a new bike of the same style and quality, including any extras that were damaged like lights and fenders. You tell them it's for insurance and you're not trying to rip them off, you just want the replacement value that you're entitled to. For authenticity they can write down the old bike details for comparison (16 speed steel frame Novara Randonee, aluminum rims, Tiagra drivetrain... like that).
Then the insurance company will take your old bike and pay the LBS for your new bike. And they might offer to sell you the old bike back for cheap because they really don't want to hassle with that either.
If the other party is accepting responsibility and their insurance agrees, here's what you do.
Take the bike to a bike shop that sells the same brand and have them write up an invoice to sell you a new bike of the same style and quality, including any extras that were damaged like lights and fenders. You tell them it's for insurance and you're not trying to rip them off, you just want the replacement value that you're entitled to. For authenticity they can write down the old bike details for comparison (16 speed steel frame Novara Randonee, aluminum rims, Tiagra drivetrain... like that).
Then the insurance company will take your old bike and pay the LBS for your new bike. And they might offer to sell you the old bike back for cheap because they really don't want to hassle with that either.
11-03-16 | 04:50 PM
#6
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,190
Likes: 17
From: Forksbent, MN
Bikes: Yes
Go to shop and get a comparable quote for something new.
If they argue about it then delay stating you need to research the fairness of their offer. Do so with a loss of use claim based on bike shop rental fee. They will come around quickly.
If all else fails tell them you are going to ask Gary for advice...
If they argue about it then delay stating you need to research the fairness of their offer. Do so with a loss of use claim based on bike shop rental fee. They will come around quickly.
If all else fails tell them you are going to ask Gary for advice...
11-03-16 | 05:41 PM
#7
Phyllo-buster
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,276
Likes: 2,698
From: Nova Scotia
Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic
Yes, I forgot about that. I paid $75 to get the carcass because it had a recently laced wheelset from a good builder, other decent parts as well. Made out like a bandit, really.
11-03-16 | 10:37 PM
#10
Thread Starter
do-over candidate
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 627
From: PNW
Bikes: One of everything and three of everything French
Thanks for the input everyone. I have already put your advice to good use. Sorry about not providing details on my accident- that's due to the sticky posted by the late Tom Stormcrowe. First thing I did after the accident was to re-read that sticky.
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11-04-16 | 12:54 AM
#11
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,504
Likes: 497
From: Corvallis, OR
One other hint if the insurance company drags their feet is that you demand a replacement bike until they compensate you, just like they would if it was a car crash. When the insurance company found it was actually more expensive to rent me a bike for a week compared to the insanely low prices they get on rental cars for the same length of time, they cut me check within 24 hours.
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The Simplicity of Vintage Cycles
The Simplicity of Vintage Cycles
11-04-16 | 01:12 PM
#12
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 107
From: Scranton, PA, USA
Bikes: '77 Centurion "Pro Tour"; '67 Carlton "The Flyer"; 1984 Ross MTB (stored at parents' house)
When I was hit in the USA in 2005, I got an estimate for 'similar quality' repairs from a bike shop, was reimbursed almost immediately for the quoted cost, and then paid out of pocket for some small upgrades.
When the cost is around $200, and written in pencil, they're really just happy to make that part of the claim go away. Think of the effort and cost they'd have to undertake to get me down by 25% or 50%, and it just doesn't make sense to fight it.
This was from the other-party's state-minimum coverage insurance provider. When I pulled the dentures out of my mangled mouth when meeting with the guy in my home, he gave up and left, and they then sent me the full coverage amount for pain and suffering. He proceeded to tell his employer that he was meeting with me on several occasions that he actually booked for various reasons and then cancelled, during which time they found he was engaged in some sort of extramarital gymnastics.
I, on the other hand, had good coverage that was actually doubled by the extra payment of about ten dollars a year and went after my own insurance company on the basis of underinsured motorist coverage. That battle was more difficult, and eventually I got a fair settlement.
When the cost is around $200, and written in pencil, they're really just happy to make that part of the claim go away. Think of the effort and cost they'd have to undertake to get me down by 25% or 50%, and it just doesn't make sense to fight it.
This was from the other-party's state-minimum coverage insurance provider. When I pulled the dentures out of my mangled mouth when meeting with the guy in my home, he gave up and left, and they then sent me the full coverage amount for pain and suffering. He proceeded to tell his employer that he was meeting with me on several occasions that he actually booked for various reasons and then cancelled, during which time they found he was engaged in some sort of extramarital gymnastics.
I, on the other hand, had good coverage that was actually doubled by the extra payment of about ten dollars a year and went after my own insurance company on the basis of underinsured motorist coverage. That battle was more difficult, and eventually I got a fair settlement.
11-04-16 | 01:46 PM
#13
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,396
Likes: 1,140
From: Norman, Oklahoma
Bikes: Too many to list
I am glad I am on the "disaster recovery" side of insurance adjustment rather than pain and suffering ---- its a bit like firemen vs police officers ---- people are usually glad to see a firefighter, but cringe at interactions with police -- LOL
11-05-16 | 07:36 AM
#14
Banned.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
Likes: 1,463
I like to read all of the posts that come up when a bike is damaged and insurance is involved.
Many show that America is basically a dishonest place and we deserve what we get.
Some show the opposite.
Having been in the business for years, I can definitely say that many here don't have a clue what they're talking about, and some do.
I'll be glad to help you in PM's.
Many show that America is basically a dishonest place and we deserve what we get.
Some show the opposite.
Having been in the business for years, I can definitely say that many here don't have a clue what they're talking about, and some do.
I'll be glad to help you in PM's.
11-05-16 | 07:40 AM
#15
Banned.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
Likes: 1,463
One thing that gets adjusters moving off the dime and give you a reasonable settlement is:
"My neck and back started bothering me.. or, I'm getting headaches..."
I've used that approach several times when I've been rear ended in my car and I was getting jerked around by insurance companies. Once I had to spend $1000 to hire a lawyer but both times I got fair settlements.
It's not being dishonest because in reality it can take days if not weeks for neck and back injuries to start to cause pain and discomfort!
I got T-Boned in my car in 1998. By 2003 I had to get a total hip replacement due to my accident injuries.
Insurance companies have settlement guidelines for most scenarios based on Risk Assements done by teams of Actuaries.
Insider Information: How Insurance Companies Measure Risk - Insurance Companies.com
Many adjuster's (and insurance company lawyers) get a portion of the difference between the guideline and settlement amount when the settlement is less than what they figure a "fair settlement" could cost the company.
Insurance companies want to get out of any potential injury settlement or law suit as quickly as possible. They usually WILL come back with some kind of reasonable settlement!
Ask for a reasonable replacement cost... Include the loss of use of the bike plus your time and expenses in finding a replacement. Your trauma is worth something too.
Remember, trying to defraud an insurance company is illegal (but when they screw you it's just good business).
verktyg
Chas.
"My neck and back started bothering me.. or, I'm getting headaches..."
I've used that approach several times when I've been rear ended in my car and I was getting jerked around by insurance companies. Once I had to spend $1000 to hire a lawyer but both times I got fair settlements.
It's not being dishonest because in reality it can take days if not weeks for neck and back injuries to start to cause pain and discomfort!
I got T-Boned in my car in 1998. By 2003 I had to get a total hip replacement due to my accident injuries.
Insurance companies have settlement guidelines for most scenarios based on Risk Assements done by teams of Actuaries.
Insider Information: How Insurance Companies Measure Risk - Insurance Companies.com
Many adjuster's (and insurance company lawyers) get a portion of the difference between the guideline and settlement amount when the settlement is less than what they figure a "fair settlement" could cost the company.
Insurance companies want to get out of any potential injury settlement or law suit as quickly as possible. They usually WILL come back with some kind of reasonable settlement!
Ask for a reasonable replacement cost... Include the loss of use of the bike plus your time and expenses in finding a replacement. Your trauma is worth something too.
Remember, trying to defraud an insurance company is illegal (but when they screw you it's just good business).
verktyg
Chas.
Good luck in that career as a professional victim.
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 11-05-16 at 07:55 AM.
11-05-16 | 07:48 AM
#16
"Florida Man"
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,668
Likes: 2,624
From: East Florida
Bikes: '16 Bob Jackson rando, '66 Raleigh Superbe, 80 Nishiki Maxima, 07 Gary Fisher Utopia, 09 Surly LHT
One other hint if the insurance company drags their feet is that you demand a replacement bike until they compensate you, just like they would if it was a car crash. When the insurance company found it was actually more expensive to rent me a bike for a week compared to the insanely low prices they get on rental cars for the same length of time, they cut me check within 24 hours.
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11-06-16 | 05:34 AM
#17
verktyg
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 1,271
From: SF Bay Area
Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1980s DeRosa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA SBDU Team Pro
Something else to be aware of when making an insurance claim for a stolen bike or a collection...
My home owner's insurance has cost of replacement coverage for everything in my house.
But... the fine print excludes any bicycles used for competition!
I've questioned my insurance agent about this a number of times and I've tried to get a rider for my bike collection. I keep getting the answer: "Don't worry, you're covered"!
Most of my bikes could have or were raced at least sometime during their lifetime.
The only defense that I can think of is they are a collection of antiques???
verktyg
Chas.
My home owner's insurance has cost of replacement coverage for everything in my house.
But... the fine print excludes any bicycles used for competition!
I've questioned my insurance agent about this a number of times and I've tried to get a rider for my bike collection. I keep getting the answer: "Don't worry, you're covered"!
Most of my bikes could have or were raced at least sometime during their lifetime.
The only defense that I can think of is they are a collection of antiques???
verktyg
Chas.
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 11-08-16 at 05:11 AM.
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