Please don't ask me to defend heavier wheels as beneficial?
And i'm not a proponent of 650b either, at least for me.

I think the main draw for 90% of 650b riders is the cloud like ride on superfat road tires at low inflation. Altho they state advantages of 'low trail' handling. Again, it may be more important for smaller framed bikes.

650b is about 15 years out for me (if things go according to my plan), when I turn 80.

?
I did finish that ride, in the best time yet with no discomfort, which I attribute to good weather conditions and excellent pacing by an old teammate not tire size/width.

-Bandera

Sorry, not buying into a heavy wheelset despite the hype for the type of riding that I do on my terrain at my pace.
700C in all of it's modern iterations will do just fine for me, as it has for generations, until performance tech catches up (if ever) to produce a really modern lightweight road 650B offering.

-Bandera

Makes sense, but also makes me wonder why you started this thread in the first place!

Physics. Rotational inertia of a 700c x28mm wheelset is about the same as 650b x 42. You should be able to accelerate the same to keep up with your buddies sprinting for the county line signs.

So it's not that it doesn't matter, it's just that it shouldn't make a difference.

The additional weight will slow you down. I assume your body fat is still pretty low like when you raced, right?


The main reason I ride 650b fatties is the roads around here can be kinda rough, and I don't want to limit where I ride by road condition.

The real reason not to change is if you're happy with 700c and the tire width limitation (comfortable riding on the tires you're riding on the roads you like to ride on), why go through the expense of changing over? That is, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

I was going through the Project Management process to build a 650B test mule up and hit a Requirement that can't be met w/ what's currently available in the marketplace: Light Wheels.

As with any project where a primary requirement cannot be delivered: Cancel in the planning phase and move along.

-Bandera

I don't think any roadies are actually using anything radically wide...maybe 25's and 28's have supplanted 20's and 23's.

650's are a riding lifestyle choice, not a performance enhancer.

See post #31.

In looking at a 650B build as a test for a possible replacement winter/wet bike the current market is producing unnecessarily overbuilt equipment for my riding style and terrain.
Looking at "The Golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles" the constructors of the 40' & 50's were building Lightweight machines for long distances at pace on the rough secondary roads of the era. A minimalist approach to design adopting the new tech of the era.

Now?
What I'm seeing in the 650B marketplace is admittedly retro-stylish in a nod to the classic French Rando bikes but lacking the application of technical advances incorporated by modern road machines, definitely not in the spirit of the constructors. Very pleasant machines to ride I'm sure but an 853 frameset in a suitable geometry w/ 1 1/8" threadless steerer, low spoke count wheels, and a complement of braze-on fittings would be a low bar to set for a modern-ish 650B machine.
In a niche market even that isn't too much to ask in 2016.

-Bandera

I don't think the wheels of the 40's and 50's were any lighter than what we have today (correct me if I'm wrong). As far as your specification, an 853 frame as you describe could be ordered today from any one of many custom framebuilders.

As far as being unnecessarily overbuilt, I'm not sure what you're referring to. I assume you're limiting the discussion to steel framed production bikes? Low trail, 650b? Or just 650b?

If you're not finding what you're looking for in a production frame, then it's because there's not a big enough market for it.

Note also that if you're asking for super light weight rims for 650b, realize that, for most, the reason to go to 650b is to allow for wider tires in standard frame designs. The wider tires require wider rims, which of course will be heavier, so you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're willing to go with disc brakes, you can make them lighter, even with carbon fiber.

I'm with you there. I should confess I've never ridden a bike with 650b wheels, but extrapolating from my own experience going from 700x23 to 700x28 to 700x35 on a bike or two, I can understand why the evangelists rave about the extra cushion you get with all that volume. And as someone who sometimes descends at unwise speeds on dodgy surfaces, I really like the idea of a big tire under me. But unless I get a frame that I can't max out the 700c tire to my satisfaction I'll probably never bother to go to 650 anything on a road bike.

Or, more likely as it usually happens with me, I'll find a cheap pair 650b wheels somewhere and say, "Aw, what the hell..." and go down a whole 'mother rabbit hole

When it comes to messing around with old bikes, its all good fun. "Gotta Catch 'em All!"

I would suggest subscribing to Bicycle Quarterly. They pretty regularly test titanium, carbon and custom steel framed rando style bikes with 650b wheels, electronic shifting, carbon rims, 11 speed cassettes etc. Your not seeing it most likely because you are looking in the wrong place.

Not sure why you would compare heavy 650b wheels to light 700c wheels. For a given rim and given tire, the 650b is always lighter. There's less of it. The 650b hoops I just laced up are 23mm wide INTERNAL and weigh 341g (verified). That's crazy light by just about anyone's standards.


It's just a BSD. This blanket statement is ignorant and incorrect.

Cool story.

So what? I've been told by many people that bourbon is terrible and beer tastes gross. My experience doesn't reflect that. There is some merit to consideration of wheel size in relation to frame and rider size. But, the way you have framed these statements is not considering overall tire diameter and pneumatic trail. It's too simple.

That's because you're looking in the wrong place. You don't go to Performance Bike looking for what you describe. You go to a custom builder. The bikes you reference were never off-the-shelf, but made-to-order. If you wanted a Singer or Herse in the 50s you had to pony up. Nothing has changed in that regard.

I built a "monster cross" a few years back and it offers all the benefits of a big tire. I ride big frame and like big wheels. I am sure big supple 700 tires are going to become more plentiful. I don't need to shrunk my wheels. I don;t think there is anything wrong with 650, I just like big wheels. I have ridden mountain bikes for many years with all size wheels including 650 and I just like the way 29ers ride better. I'll keep my road wheels the same.

I go back and forth on the whole 650b thing. I like the idea because I can't stop tinkering with my bikes; I hate the idea because I have to deal with a whole new set of parts . . . .

I will say this. The beauty of fatter tires on a road bike is not oversold. They really do handle great; they really do accelerate nicely; and the lower air pressure is really more comfortable. The one bike in my tool kit which I ride regularly on all kinds of surfaces and which I find incredibly comfortable is my 1993 Bridgestone XO-2. It has road geometry but it was built around 26 inch wheels. Back in the day, 26 inches was the smart choice for an all roads bike since no one had dreamt up 29ers yet and 26 inch wheel MTBs were all the rage. The '93 XO-2 has the same geometry as the more famous XO-1 and it was sold with really nice Nitto dirt drop bars; it was and is such a well thought out bike designed by a guy, Grant Peterson, who wasn't scared to push the design envelope.

I am not into this "racing" thing. I'm not particularly interested in this 650B thing (but just last night I was looking at something that just happened to be 650B).

Where is the hype for the type of riding that you do at your pace?

I see the 650B folks all around the rando thing- but can't think of seeing any weight weenie rando bikes around on the internetz. "Lightweight" is a relative term.

As mentioned- the draw of 650B to most people is that big high volume low pressure cushy tire. Why not try to get a set of those fancy Compass tires as wide as you can fit and run them at 30-35 PSI on a bike you like with a wheelset you like? I didn't think it was anywhere near prudent to run 700c tires at 35 PSI- but after riding a set of Compass Bon Jon Pass below 35 PSI- it's fantastic.

You've probably seen this thread but you may find it useful, https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...onversion.html

You know many of those old Treks make great 650b conversions; just sayin.

Sit back, drink the Koolaide, buy into 650B, buy wider tires, ride with a blue jersey, spend money F'ing with your brakes, and you will be a faster rider.....

me thinks Le Colonel JLloyd is as much a 650b convert as some of us are reticent & only mildly interested.

Born @ Norton, will sip whiskey with you all day - not too choosey.

I might be rewording what a few people have said already.

There is a theory, and if I understand it properly, it says that heavier wheels (and bike) will slow you down compared with light wheels, but over long distances, the difference can shrink depending on your pace, conditioning, and terrain. Add to that the fact that softer tires have the potential to reduce rider fatigue, and the result has the potential to require less energy from the rider to cover a given distance at a given pace with the fatter but heavier wheels. I don't know if this has been tested and proven, but Jan Heine is building the data and evidence. In time, he may be proven wrong, but a lot of happiness is spreading among those who are trying fatter tires in 700c and 650b.

The developing generation of bikes designed for the rigors of racing Paris Roubaix and the pave' classics are where I'll be looking for the adoption of wider 700C wheels/tires, innovative compliance designs, aerodynamics and modern materials for a light and very comfortable machine to be ridden at a right smart pace by the elderly.

When going through the Project management processes it somtimes becomes clear that one is in the right church, but the wrong pew.

-Bandera

It's all about finding the right tire volume and overall diameter that works best for you. The 559, 584 and 622 BSDs are just metrics in a big equation that is impossible to solve. But, what works for me - what I like and prefer - is becoming clearer.

Of course some of the "elderly" would prefer to ride the high end bikes of their youth; they're smart bikes meant to last and relatively cheap. They just need a 650b conversion to do all the things you want to do with a bike. There's something to be said for recycling regardless of age,

My subscription to BQ for the last few years is what got me into project planning mode, reviewing requirements has re-defined the scope of the project.

-Bandera

Bandera, Back when we were in our ~3 year drought and the shoulders of many of the FM roads were opening up with some large cracks I used my touring bike for my distance rides to give me a fighting chance of not dropping my front wheel into one of those cracks.

The touring bike is about 6.5 lb. heavier with much of that in the wheels and tires. Distance riding, once up to speed, was pretty similar to using my distance roadie. There may have also been some positive flywheel effect using the heavier tires and wheels, I've no way to really know.

While it would be out of the question to use that bike in a pace line, crit, or a sprint, it did do well eating up the miles. If I were to consider a 650B build, it would be simply, and perhaps solely for a comfy distance bike. If 650B continues to regain popularity I suspect there will be more competition level choices available.

Brad

I know now where the disconnect in our posts is. Outside of maybe, at most, a few hundred riders who are competing against each other, the vast majority are riding PBP, not racing it. I'm not arguing one way or another, but it would seem you're still fit enough that a good bike ride might be measured in how well you stack up against other riders. I gave up on this long ago!