So what do these "crazy light" 650B wheelsets weigh w/o rubber & cogs?
I'll concede a weight penalty to to test the purported decreased rolling resistance of the bigger tires & tubes.

-Bandera

Do the math yourself; lots of variables. Every wheel is the sum of the weight of each part that goes into it. Go to town with published data from manufacturers and users.

But, what are you getting at? You seem rather biased against this 650b "trend". If not, my mistake, please clarify.

I haven't weighed the wheels after being built (they've only been laced). They are thru axle, centerlock hubs (DT 350 and SP PX-8). Both are 32h with Sapim Race spokes and Secure Lock brass nipples. I think I estimated all the parts to total ~1850g. Subtract 300g for non-dynamo hub.

I'm not sure what you mean by "weight penalty". All things equal smaller wheels weigh less than larger ones. Tires are going to vary dependent on their intended use and quality. FWIW, the wheels I referenced will use Pacenti tubeless tape and around 50g of Orange Seal per wheel. That said, I wanted a relatively light wheelset, but not at all costs. It has a 400+g dynamo hub afterall.

If you read Post #1 what "I'm getting at" is:

So far the answers are: None.

Biased?
Nope, my wheel size is Agnostic but my Requirements are not.

Enjoy your machine, it is built to your spec.

BTW: I was hoping that you had that "Crazy-Light" as a number not a catch-phrase.

-Bandera

Now, there is an actual answer to Post #1:

Thanks!

-Bandera

You're being obtuse. It's not arguable that smaller wheels are lighter. You're just asking everyone else to do the research for you and poo-pooing. Buy the parts and build the wheels to try yourself.

I gave you a number and criteria. The rim I built up was disc only, 341g, 23mm internal, 26mm external, 584 BSD. What more you do you want? The current "state of the art" is lighter than it was in the 70s. Is this disputable?

You asked for "what's the state of the art" and then have proclaimed the answer is "so far, none". I don't follow.

"Built to my spec". Uh, yeah. Are you asking for a sub 1500g 650b wheelset for rim brakes? Might be out there, man up and put it together. Mass produced wheelsets are made to serve a lot of purposes/people pretty well. Stop moving the goal posts and comparing custom and factory frames and wheelsets.

A simple direct answer to my question?
So, what do those "crazy light" wheels weigh?

No dogging, agenda or disrespect intended.

Really? Get a grip.

-Bandera

He's sorta right for 650b rim brake wheelsets.

Send Jan Heine an email and see what he rides. Something Compass Bicycles I'm sure, for sale on their website I bet.

If the estimated weight I gave you above wasn't sufficient, fine. But I did, in good faith, give you an answer.

Thanks for the road map!

Bought a Twin Six "Rando" for my wife and decided to go 650b.

I'll definitely go with the dyno, probably a
the SP.

Perfect for the type of riding she does.

Have to check if the TS thru axle ready..... not sure.

Thanks,

All one could reasonably ask for

-Bandera

https://www.lightbicycle.com/XC-650B...ompatible.html

~ 320g

Yep: The technique, pedaling dynamics, bike fit, paceline etiquette, road smarts and grit don't just disappear when one retires from the sport of competitive cycling.

I'm in a permanent Emeritus Base-Miles only state which will be well served by the bikes that I own, some for many years but I'm not a Luddie.

My Early adoption was hardly misguided of:

Clipless Pedals
Indexed Shifting
Cycle Computers
130 BCD Cranksets

Questioning a standard of wheel size that seems to not be benefiting from the improvements in wheel technology is SOP for anyone with an interest in riding the bike w/o a particular agenda or wheel-cult, but an understanding of current bike tech.

-Bandera




The current niche 650B faux-retro fad: Retro-Style over Modern Tech: No thanks.

Meh, I tried throwing you a bone, man, and all I get back is a knock on what I ride, which is a combination of the old and the new.

This whole thread reads like you're riding with a chip on your shoulder. You can just call me,

Mr. Retro-Grouch-Cultist

btw, the lessons learned from riding 300+ miles a week when I was at %5 body fat aren't lost on me either. It's just that I can't enjoy the scenery, or talk to my fellow riders when I'm in a constant paceline. I still use that now and then, but find it less and less enjoyable as I get older. Worrying about grams of weight in my rims and tires, and minimizing spoke counts is just a lower priority now.

I like thing A that does feature set x well. Some other people like thing B that does feature set y well, but isn't as good at x. In addition, I don't care about y. Tell me why I should use thing B

Is it actually retro style over modern tech, or is there just not enough interest to support a thriving selection of high-end modern parts?

That's an issue which might take a while to resolve even if it turns out to be a good idea, since it's sort of a chicken-and-egg problem where what would be the target demographic consists of a high fraction of people who are sort of horrified by the idea. Right now, 27.5 MTB rims might well be the most viable high-performance 650b option.

H'm. So why do I find 650x38b's so much more satisfactory than 700x35c's on my 65cm bike?

IME, 650b's "spin up" much faster than 700c's OF COMPARABLE WIDTH. Makes little to no sense to compare the performance of a wide 650b to a narrow 700c. Two completely different things.

SP
OC, OR

I admire what you do w/ old frameset conversions.
Nice work.

No "knock" man on what you do or want to ride but I don't need/want a "bone" from you or anyone else.
But thanks anyway.

A "Chip on my Shoulder"?

Yep, that's what they pay the PMP the middle-big-bucks to do:
Run the Project In Scope/On Requirements/On Budget/On Time with a Vengance.
Especially when it's my time/money/delivearable.

650B Project Cancelled due to failure of primary requirement deliverable from production sources.

-Bandera

No problem.

Sometimes you go to try on some new duds, and they don't fit.

I'm going to go saddle up on my fad bike and ride tomorrow before I can't find replacement parts.

Feh, we'll just make our own effin replacement parts.

IIRC Robbietunes has experience here. But seems like an ugly thread so may not hear anything.

Cheers!

I picked up a pair of 650B rims on clearance at a VO warehouse sale. It was an impulse purchase. I have several other bikes with VO rims, so the weight difference here is minimal. I have yet to spring for carbon wheels, which seems to be what you are using for comparison. Yes?

Anyway, a large snowstorm and grandkids in the house gave me reason to lace them up. (Boy, did those eyes get big when they realized grandpa was making wheels outta nuthin'!).

ALL my bikes are C&V, but those originally built for 27" wheels don't take 650B very well. Few long-reach brakes are long enough. BUT, the wheels fit very nicely into my 1971 Gitane TdF. I put 38mm Col de la Vie tires on, as it wasn't clear if the 42mm tires would fit. I have an advantage in that I have a 1971 Gitane Super Corsa for control comparison, too.

Bandera, I keep looking at that 1974 Raleigh International in your signature. What a great frame for 650B wheels. What's the big deal in lacing up a set and giving them a try? It's clearly not big bucks. At most you might have to swap in different brake calipers.

My TdF is not especially faster with the 650B wheels, but the comfort change is very distinctly noticeable. I don't think it is necessarily slower, either. Cushier, is what I'd say. I like to rotate bikes, and now generally put the TdF after a tight-framed race bike with skinny tires - just for the contrast. I love 'em both, but the 650B sure does put a big grin on my face.

I, however, hate peloton rides.

YMMV, as they say.

The old Internat'l is simply too useful in it's present town bike configuration to disassemble.
Getting to the farmer's market & home w/ the fixings for supper takes priority over any new project.

If I run across another in good nick at the right price........

-Bandera

May I repeat myself? "Bandera, I keep looking at that 1974 Raleigh International in your signature. What a great frame for 650B wheels. What's the big deal in lacing up a set and giving them a try? It's clearly not big bucks. At most you might have to swap in different brake calipers."

The town bike is the perfect one to toss on a different wheel set. This is really No Big Deal. A few minutes to adjust the brake reach or swap calipers. That's about it. You can change back anytime. But I bet they will stay on that bike.

What's to lose?

I know what you mean. Plodding describes it. I tried a couple times to ride clinchers in the 80s and 90s, including this combo. Always went back to sew ups.

In retrospect, I think it was mostly the tires. I'm currently riding A23 rims with GP4000 tires and they feel a lot like sew ups to me. Rim weight is roughly comparable to an MA40 (etc), so it follows that it's mostly the tires and the slightly wide-ish rim. Based on this logic I'd think an A23 with a light tire would be sufficient for this experiment.

So I guess it comes down to finding light 650B tires, which for all practical purposes seem to be various Panaracers with other peoples names on them.

Not quite so toss-able the way my Internat'l is set-up.
A pic is worth a dozen posts.
I'm running a 1956 alloy shell AW IGH w/ a 50's Cyclo 3-cog hybrid drivetrain using 1/2X1/8" chain.
Not exactly compatible w/ any modern-ish 650B wheelset.

I built this bike up out the box 42 years ago & it's been in continuous service ever since as road & 'cross racer, fixed gear, touring and now a town bike.
The British knew what they were doing in building a highly versatile pleasant lightweight for discriminating riders "back when".

Thanks for your interest in it.

-Bandera