Hello all,

Figured this is a good place to ask. I have this bike:



It currently has a full 7-speed Shimano 105 groupset which works just fine, yet I am still considering upgrading it. First I thought of getting a modern drivetrain with 'brifters,' but now I've decided that I want to keep the downtube shifters, because I like the look and they are fun to operate. Now I am thinking to upgrade to full Dura Ace, just because. This is what I am thinking of currently:

- 7900 downtube shifters. I like the idea of having ten speeds so that I can use modern wheels.
- 7800 RD. Works with the downtube shifters (right?) and is silver. Also, it can be had for cheap.
- 7410 FD. Seems to be the only one I can easily find with a 28.6mm clamp.

For the rest, I would like some DA brake calipers and DA aero brake levers. Am I right to think that the 7402 levers are what I am looking for? Or is there anything more recent? Would any calipers work with 7400 levers? Would 7700 calipers work? I like the looks of those.

Is there any part of my plan that won't work? Any parts that you would recommend instead of those I have mentioned? Thanks for the help.

You can still use a 7800/7900 front derailleur. Buy the braze on model, and use a clamp on adapter. Shimano plus a few aftermarket brands make them.

The 7400 brake levers will work fine with modern dual pivot brakes. I believe that there were three generations (BL 7400, 7401, 7402).

An issue that I can see is the rear hub spacing (126mm vs. 130mm). It might be too narrow for a modern hub. If the frame is steel, it can be easily cold set. If you have an aluminum frame, it cannot. With a little bit strength on your part, you may be able to fit a modern wheel into the dropouts. Some have had success with that.

Good luck with the build.

Dennis

Thanks for the reply. Any advantage of going for a 7800/7900 fd over the older one? Good to know about the brakes. My limited search suggests that the 7400 and 7401 might not be 'aero.' I do like the cables under the tape better.

As for the hub spacing, the frame has already been cold set to 130mm.

7400 levers are non-aero and VERY expensive ($120 or so) in good shape with hoods.
7401 levers are aero, almost impossible to find, and require a special ferrule inside the lever body; the cables won't work without the ferrule. It is possible to modify an older beehive ferrule to work, but you should know aout this.
7403 levers are aero, also super expensive, also very hard to find in decent condition. The chrome surrounds on these tend to peel and chip.
R600 levers came out when 7700 was released, they are the go-to levers for 9 and 10 speed Dura Ace/Ultegra builds when using down tube shifters. Not unusual for those to sell for $75-90. A less expensive alternative are R400 levers, which have a light gray surround, but work just as well.
Functionally, any of those levers, plus any tricolor, 1051 series or 1055 series brake lever would work just fine, as would any ergo shaped Tektro 200,3401 or similar lever (just stay away from the different shaped Tektros that are intended for V-brakes or cantilevers). So you have a lot of choices and price points to choose from, all depends on your preferred aesthetic.

Any 7400-7403-7410-7700-7800-7900 FD will work with downtube shifters and they all look pretty much the same. I would just look for a nice one, as they are not expensive. Same thing with RDs- 7700-7800-7900 will all work with 9 or 10 speed applications, same cable pull. Shop around, try to find one with good jockey wheels; these RDs tend to scar just under the back knuckle when people lean them against a wall.

All of the 7402/3-7700-7800-7900 brake sets work well but my preference is for polished 7700-7800 ones. Earlier ones in good shape are getting much more expensive but there's no performance advantage.

RCCARDR covered the brake lever descriptions very well.

As for the FD, I'd go newer just because the pivots should be tighter from less wear and tear. I have never tried an older generation FD on a modern drivetrain. The only issue that I could foresee is that an older FD may not have the travel range to cover the wider spread of a modern cogset. Maybe someone could comment on that.

For what it's worth, I am running downtube shifters on a 2x10 Shimano drivetrain on my '85 Schwinn Tempo. It is awesome.

Dennis

Cheers guys, that's exactly the information I needed.

When it comes to friction shifting a fd with 7900 dt shifters I actually prefer to use an older fd. The 10 speed units are narrower and require more trimming. For sti shifters there is a reason for that. For dt shifters I just try whatever old fd I have laying around that somewhat matches the group. 7, 8, 9 speed preferred.

[MENTION=406877]PepeM[/MENTION] you are basically describing the setup on my '85 Peloton, and I enjoy it 100% (she is my flagship bike for a reason!)

For brake levers, the R600 (same shape as R400, RX100 Super SLR, 105 '1055' era, and 600 '6403' era levers), which are Super SLR labeled, work really well. I put unused bar tape underneath/to the sides of the levers (under the hoods) to make a wider and thus more comfortable on-the-hoods riding experience (great for slowing hand fatigue).

7700 or 7800 dual-pivot calipers look great and work great. Get adjustable angle pads for toeing in ease--you will thank yourself! Plus, no caliper arm bending! The later 7400 calipers (7402 and 7403) offer more leverage with their longer arms than earlier 7400 units.

7700 or 7800 FD and RD as they look the similar and work well. Something about some of the 7400 FDs I dislike: the inner cage has that curved leading edge to push the chain to the big ring but it seems it's way too curved/aggressive and ends up just chucking the chain over the big ring. The later FDs have that curve tamed a bit and shift better for it. I am running a 7400 unit on a bike, but tamed the curved portion and it works flawlessly. I think you can find some 7700 and 7800 FDs in a 28.6mm clamp (higher probability for the 7700), otherwise 31.8 clamp and shim or braze on with clamp adapter.

I think you will be very happy with this setup. 1050-era Shimano 105 is good stuff, but running newer DA stuff with old-school control type is fun. Plus it looks great!

Great info in here. Thanks a lot guys. Will update as I start getting all the items, might take a while.

Finally I found the answer. I know this is originally from 2017 but it has been bugging me ever since installing them. I have the 7401 aero brake levers and they were driving me crazy trying to install them. I was finally able to with some custom finesse onto my Vitus 979 but I'm glad I know know it wasn't me. Everyone local i asked told me they take a standard ferrule and I was adamant that they didn't and was told I must be doing something wrong.

…..

I think you are referring to the BL-7402

BMC_Kid Pepe was searching for those parts in 2017... maybe he's still on the hunt 7 years later, tho.

I totally agree . Prefer for 7800 dura ace on my side but brake caliper wise 7700 and 7800 offer more efficient and more progressive braking than their campy counterparts. RDs- 7700-7800-7900 are lighter and much more accurate than their campy counterparts as well.

Thanks. I’ll never understand why some feel the need to activate long dead threads to make a comment that is tangential to the original post. If you have information to get out, make an original post and reference the other post in your narrative.

What kind of cranks are those? I have never seen them before and they look really interesting.

I did something similar recently after stumbling on some 8 speed DA shifters for cheap:

Scratched my skinny carbon itch - plus Dura Ace!

My solution to the brake lever problem was a nice pair of last generation 600EX levers. They were missing the cable inserts, but I clamped some common Dia Compe brake lever inserts and turned them down with a file in a drill press - took 10 minutes.

The 600EX levers look like the first DA aero levers but with silver blades rather than gray.
If you like the R600 lever option but the price is too high, buy some R400, remove the gray flange and dye it black. Should look pretty much just like the R600 then. Otherwise, the 1051 105 levers from the '80s are good looking and more common. They came in silver and gun metal.

I also ended up using 7700 calipers and right now I am using an 6400 FD. But if I find a DA one for a good price I will happily use a braze on adapter with it.


For cranks, you might consider using the 7700 as well. They are common, less expensive, very good cranks and you can still buy new 5500 Octalink BBs for them. They look good and old-school enough for the rest of your parts.

Schoberer Rad Messtechnik

Site won't let me use the acronym without reducing to lower case.

so, basically an old model of power meter cranks?

Are these the same 7700 series brakes that so many times are referred too as too light and flexy by even the Shimano lovers? Many a time people will call the 7700 series the best of the Dura Ace groupsets but them mention that the brakes are the one weak point. Have you ever even ridden the parts you keep putting down all the time. I mean that seriously this time. I ride them all back to back on any given day and my actual experiences do not line up with what you say all the time. We all have our preferences but those do not change actual facts.

In nearly 30 years I have never once seen, heard or read that as a criticism of the 7700 brakes, which are the best I’ve ever used. As I’ve said many times here, I’d put mine up against disk brakes in dry weather any day. Any. Day.

Some references.....



https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...vs-7800.54757/


Dura Ace Brake Calipers: BR-7700 vs BR-7800?


https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=39194

That took me about 2 seconds to find. Draw your own conclusion.

Now for me I don't have any issue with the ones I am running either. But this is a fine example of trusting your own example vs what everyone writes on the internet. Sorta like Shimano so superior to Campy. I don't see it in my day to day riding at all and I've got lots and lots of miles riding all sorts of parts. That makes me a true expert.....in my own mind, LOL!

Yeah, yeah, reviews obviously written by people who don’t know how to set up brakes properly.

I find my 7700 brakes to have a bit of flex - just not enough to matter. The '96 Chorus brakes I have on a different bike seem a little stiffer. Both stop the bike. For a DA bike 7700 are easier to get pads for than 7402, but aren't as conspicuous in shape as the 7800. (But the 7800 are also nice looking.)

There was a time when ultimate power wasn't the goal of a road brake.

It always was for me. Upgrading to 7400 brakes from 600 EX was a disappointment. I never got the brake responsiveness or feel until I went with 7700s.