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Info on a Phillips Phantom

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Old 07-11-17 | 12:44 PM
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Info on a Phillips Phantom

Hi All,
I just acquired a Phillips Phantom. Pretty rough condition but it has a Reynolds frame (full DB) and stem & bars.
It's drivetrain is a 1952 Sturmey Archer 4 speed, 26" x 1.25"wheels.
Other than the worn and faded paint job, it's stem is stuck (and missing the bolt and quill), seat post, saddle and maybe a few other minor things.
What I need is some history which I can't find on the web.

Pics to come
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Old 07-11-17 | 12:58 PM
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Sounds like a bike I'd like to know more about! But alas I know nothing. It sounds like an equivalent of the Norman Rapide, Armstrong Moth, Hercules Kestrel, etc.

Photos?
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Old 07-11-17 | 02:54 PM
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The stem is missing the quill? That's confusing.
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Old 07-11-17 | 07:00 PM
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Wedge? Maybe it's still in there, try getting at it from below? Sounds like a special bike.
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Old 07-12-17 | 01:40 PM
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Re the stem, it's possible --likely, even-- that someone thought removing the bolt would free the stem. Try putting a long rod, screw driver or something, down the hole to the wedge, and give it a good knock with a hammer. That may be all it needs to free the stem.
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Old 07-13-17 | 11:42 AM
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It's raining quite a bit up here, you'd think we are in British Columbia.
Anyways, the bike is quite roached but it is salvageable. I am missing a few parts which I'm going to contact the previous owner to see if they still have it.
Too bad that I can't find a great version online or decals for this rare model but part of me say's just rebuild her and appreciate the patina.
Here are some rainy pics:
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Old 07-13-17 | 01:40 PM
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Dunlop Special Lightweight rims, maybe? Alloy FM? Lovely club bike and well worth saving especially that stem. Sometimes those Reynolds bars are dated as well. I'm sure some info will show up, someday. There was a Vox Populi that was mid range with straight 531. Not sure that fork looks right.
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Old 07-13-17 | 02:42 PM
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Learn to read

Thanks all,
My eyes are getting bad. In better light the rear hub is 1950. I did find some info in pdf format on an vintage English bike site.
In the booklet, it's a single speed and this bike was the top-of-the-line. Went for 22 pounds for a single speed.
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Old 07-13-17 | 03:21 PM
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That sounds right. It was common for this kind of bike to appear in the catalog as a single speed, but usually delivered with a geared hub.

Could you get better photos of the lugs, crank, decals, head badge, etc?
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Old 07-15-17 | 09:38 AM
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Thanks for pointing out that fork difference. Stepping back I see a difference in style of the frame lugs versus the fork crowns. I have come across that crown before while researching 1950 lugs on my Motobecane frame.
For some reason why they did change it.
I am a bit of a quandary. My friend tells me to break it down and sell for parts (I could use those 1950 hubs on my CCM Club racer) but my creative half tells me to simply rebuild her and enjoy her even though it is too big and incomplete.
If they did sell decals online for this model, I would of stripped it down and restore her but I'll give it more time.
Too bad the original art is gone or else I would copy it.
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Old 07-15-17 | 09:40 AM
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Here is some more:
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Old 07-15-17 | 02:41 PM
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If you Google "ekla lugs" and look at the photos, I think you'll see that both your frame lugs and fork crown are Ekla (or possibly a Birmingham-made copy by Brampton or Walton and Brown or the like). So unless the fork is bent or something, I don't see a problem. Differences in the paint may or may not be significant.

It seems to me your decals are good enough to document and copy, but I understand this would be a labor of love and not worth your time if the bike is too big for you anyway.

Can you read a date code on the crank arms or chain ring?
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Old 07-15-17 | 09:00 PM
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More info

I cleaned the inside of the left crank arm and using a loop, I read EBW, B being on the inside of a 'dagger' plus 'AL' underneath the handle of the dagger. The E and W are on either side of the dagger's blade.
Since I had it upside down in my stand, I noticed the numbers 28 stamped on the bottom of the bottom bracket and 1175 stamped on the left rear stay.
I love to just rebuild her and gently take her for a spin. I do have one old ti Speedwell from the 1970s from England that is far too big but I couldn't sell her so I'm not in a rush to stripe it down and sell it in pieces.
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Old 07-15-17 | 09:04 PM
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I agree that the fork looks right. It's just that this is a top shelf bike given it''s age and double butted tubes. 99.999 % of Phillips bikes have bog-standard Birmingham forks with chromed crown caps. This one is special.
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Old 07-16-17 | 07:30 AM
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Your crank was made in 1949. That's perfectly consistent with a 1950 bike.

https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/williamsdating.html
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Old 07-16-17 | 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rhm
Your crank was made in 1949. That's perfectly consistent with a 1950 bike.

https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/williamsdating.html
Thanks everybody!
Next question, should I restore it or simply rebuild?
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Old 07-16-17 | 10:47 AM
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I vote gentle clean, service to make it rideable.
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Old 07-16-17 | 12:57 PM
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Yeah... less is more.

Free the stem, replace the stem bolt, find a suitable front brake (ideally, match the rear; but whatever). Overhaul the bearings, tighten the spokes, etc. Almost any seat post will do.

Let me know if you want a reproduction Phillips saddle; I can help you there.

Don't repaint. Get the best possible photos of all the decals. Put them out on the web.

This bike may be worth repainting with replacement decals, or maybe not. But no hurry. Get it clean, complete and rideable, then wait a while. Could be some other classic will grab your attention before you spend your money on this one, and that's fine too.
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Old 07-16-17 | 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm
Yeah... less is more.

Free the stem, replace the stem bolt, find a suitable front brake (ideally, match the rear; but whatever). Overhaul the bearings, tighten the spokes, etc. Almost any seat post will do.

Let me know if you want a reproduction Phillips saddle; I can help you there.

Don't repaint. Get the best possible photos of all the decals. Put them out on the web.

This bike may be worth repainting with replacement decals, or maybe not. But no hurry. Get it clean, complete and rideable, then wait a while. Could be some other classic will grab your attention before you spend your money on this one, and that's fine too.
Thanks again guys.
It's too bad that no one has one to photograph. In the past I've done the PX10 decals and sold them online so maybe one day someone sees this and post their photos online.
When I'm done I'll post my green emerald.
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Old 07-17-17 | 07:22 AM
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Well, I agree the paint on your bike is pretty appalling. But it's original, and the original decals are pretty well preserved, all things considered. I have an Armstrong (Moth?) of the same era, exactly the same lugs etc, and it has NO decals preserved. Nothing. Very disappointing. I have a Fothergill from the 30's or 40's, and it, too, came to me with NO decals, just two coats of non-original paint. On the latter I had to reconstruct the decals from the rust stains on the frame tubes after I sanded all the paint off!

If you're willing, let's see some more photos of the remaining Phillips Phantom decals, both sides of the down tube, and the seat tube as well. I have a strong suspicion there's enough preserved that you can draw them accurately. Even if you can't draw them with 100% accuracy, you are in a better position to draw them than anyone else is, at the moment --at least until we find a better Phillips Phantom.
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Old 07-23-17 | 07:30 PM
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Hi,
Yeah, I've spent some time looking at the faded images and searching online for similar art.
Do you think I can get the headtube badge repainted?
Once I get more time, I'll take it outside and study what I can salvage.
I'm hoping for someone can read this plea and post some pics.
Thanks
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Old 07-24-17 | 07:43 AM
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I think the headbadge would be the last thing to repaint, besides, the odds of finding a suitable replacement aren't bad. Do you have any artist friends who can simulate the decalling? It's not critical to have the exact match if you're repainting the bike.

Your bike has a nice deco script with a gold border. Here's an example of a later Raleigh that your graphics guy could riff off of and modify to suit.
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Old 08-02-17 | 08:48 AM
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Hello,
I've created reproductions in the past but had better representations to work from.

I have re-created peoples logos many times, originals ranging from napkins to baseball caps so it has become one of my specialties.


The frame art from what I see is a cross of the logo and a serif font mixture and that there is some kind of weird art deco elements.
You're right, it won't be accurate but I will have to guesstimate as to what it looks like.
Too bad that I still can't find someone who owns one. I would like to see what that beauty originally looks like in its full glory.
Thanks for your input all.
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Old 08-02-17 | 09:07 AM
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Found a catalogue for you, from the VCC
https://www.veterancycleclublibrary.o...20Library).pdf
Here's the bike from 1950. Not quite good enough to help with gfx. That's a top shelf club bike.

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Old 08-02-17 | 09:09 AM
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Total weight including mudguards ~24 lbs! Stainless steel pedals. Wow. Maybe you shouldn't touch this one.
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