Hi all,

I recently was lucky enough to purchase a Cinelli Model B. I had a post on the Appraisal section before I bought it. I got some great feedback there, but I've got some better pictures now and would like to show it off to the wider community and also get some opinions on the bike. Is it late 50s or more likely from the 1960s. Clearly the brakes, wheels and saddle post are not original, but what sense do people have about what other parts might be original and what would need upgrading to restore the bike? I have searched the forum for other threads and there is some great stuff from [MENTION=64748]devinfan[/MENTION] and others on this topic.

Obviously, first I will have to take the bike apart and clean it up (no small task!). I plan to start that in late August and have had some great advice on how to do that in a slow and careful fashion.

Here is the link the original thread

This is a link to some detailed photos and I've attached some below as well. Thanks in advance for any help on this. https://photos.app.goo.gl/iUaX4Gr8e2BYJGvo2

Best

Pat

I don't have any specifics to add, but that is a heck of a find. Good on you for snapping it up, looking forward to more. It won't be too long until a few others chime in with valuable info. Enjoy!

For chrome and paint try Velociao in Berlin. Only place I would trust with electrolytic chrome removal. Pricing is sane, they do a lot of this, and a lot of Cinellis. All staff speak English.

Of course if you did chrome and paint that would call for new or newish looking parts as well. You could just wax that chrome. Do you like orange? Getting rid of the orange would decide it for me.

Probably not any original parts except headset, cranks, stem and maybe handlebars. Headset, cranks and stem are all rare and definitive for this bike. Keep the headset even if you have to have the races re-lapped. And if it still runs smooth be happy. Crank takes either 116bcd or 151 chainrings, either very available. Alloy T.A. Criterium rings are easy to get and would not be wrong here.

You'll have a heck of a time getting a firm date on your frame. Pretty sure that crank is original. I don't think I'd do anything but source original parts by studying the specs on the other circa '60 Cinellis online and start gathering. Then you'd be in a position to decide what to do. Maybe paint touch up and fresh decals alone would work. It's only original once.

I don't know from old Cinellis, but looking at the paint, I'd just assumed its already been repainted once.

Very cool project, either way

I wasn't thinking of that...this does look a little sloppy.

I'm with the folks that dated it to the mid to late-60s--take a look at the Cinelli timeline on Velo-Retro--yours still has the fender eyelets and I think I am seeing the anchor hole for the Cinelli Sport. I do think the crank is original (the one I raced on BITD was similar vintage & same crank); I also think it is a repaint. Headset looks original as well (Magistroni?)

(Can't post a link for Velo Retro because I have not posted much here, but you will find it easy enough).

If you look on the rear mech you should see a date code on the top where the cable enters, you should see 'Patent XX' which will tell you the year--if old enough, it may be original:

I think I see that hole in the dropout also. That is for the Campagnolo Sportman (1961) derailleur. Which would not likely have been used on this bike, the dropout is simply ready for it. There are a lot more of those dropouts than there ever were Sportman derailleurs. And the hole was even there before the derailleur was finally ready to go. Dating indicators are not perfect.

That's a Nuovo Record derailleur. Introduced 1967, too new for this bike. Earliest ones were undated.

There are extant Model Bs with all original kit that have some surprising parts. Mafac, Weinmann, Altenburger brakes all happened as well as Universal. Altenburger derailleurs got used. You have some leeway. Even if you want to be perfectly period correct you have leeway. If you want to ride it rather than display it try to be respectful but do what you want. Your bike. Velostuf has original Gaslo silk bar tape for you. Silk tape is nice.

It's a fabulous bike. Get it together and get it on the road and see how you like it. Decide later if you need correct REG bottle cages (handlebar mount?) or if your pump peg is too early or too late.

Headset is Cinelli.

Yes, it clearly says Cinelli on it. But who made these? Magistroni made a lot of OEM headsets for various Italian bike manufacturers, Frejus, Atala, Gloria, I have no idea how many. This looks to me like Magistroni product, but what do I know.

Good point. I had always thought with their manufacturing capability, Cinelli made them. But, the Magistroni headset looks just like it.

I wish I had a picture of mine--but from fading memory, it had Universal brakes and Campy Nuovo Record rear.

This could have been built with a Nuovo--if is is past the cusp of mid-1965... Two years from from frame manufacture to assembly? Anyways, I thought it would be worth checking--and if it were pre-1970, I would build up the bike with it.

I'm going blind so I totally missed the writing on it--but I do remember the pin-style lock ring and thought Magistroni.

I thought the crank was Magistroni too, but apparently FB denoted a different brand (that may have been related as well?).

Can anyone tell what brakes are on there? (Nevermind--looked at rest of pics from link and see the Dia Compe....)

Two years from frame manufacture to assembly sounds normal to me. On old old bikes you will find all sorts of anachronisms. Stuff used to sit in inventory for years and years.

To my eyes the Nuovo derailleur looks much too new. I look at the bike and see 50s even though I know it is more likely 60s. I would build this with Gran Sport mechs. But could Nuovo be used? Sure. Could Nuovo be correct? Yes.

Yes--Gran Sports would be better.

And you can imagine someone in the early '70s doing the rebuild, and grabbing the Phil hubs and Nuovo Record as the best of the cool new stuff--and not being able to afford the Campy brakes for his rebuild...

The small hole in the righthand dropout is to retain the spring of the Campag Sport rear mech, nr. 1013/2, which launched 1952. The Campag Sportman model rear mech does not make use of the hole.



VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo 1013/2, Sport



VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo Sportman

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Thank you juvela. That makes much more sense.

Couple other points. Where I could also be wrong. The Velo-Retro Cinelli timeline says the wolf ear lugs were phased out 1959-60. This bike definitely has the wolf ear lugs. The rear dropouts photograph as rather short for dropouts that old. Any other opinions out there? Would Campy have kept the hole for newer, shorter drops? Or am I just seeing the photo wrong?

The timeline also says the binder bolt I had on my '73 disappeared in '72. There are errors and there are oddities.

Also in summer '73, talking to Andre Cinelli about the shop order for S.C. bikes, I asked about B models. He said definitely no more would be made. But he did have some in inventory. Odd sizes, odd colors. Some, he said, had been there for years. Thinking if no one in the world had wanted them for years they might not be good for store inventory, I declined. Mistake.

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Ends set is standard Campag 1010. Note that the adjuster is turned all the way in and the hub axle is all the way forward in the axle slot of the dropout. This may have the effect of making the axle slots appear shorter than those of other 1010's.

Regarding lugs and seat binders. Just because a given machine demonstrates anomalies from a timeline it does not necessarily mean the timeline is incorrect. Imagine a storeroom filled with framebuilding bits. A builder runs across a forgotten carton or one which was covered up by other things and decides to use up those fittings even though they are the "old pattern."

I posed the question in the other thread about the all chrome headtube. Might have a chrome frame now repainted or another rare anomaly, most I have seen are attached to an all chrome one. That being said, this one doesn't look like it's chrome underneath. The dating can be narrowed down a bit by oil port and or drain on the BB or lack there of one or the other according to Cinelli only timeline

As I understand it, Cinelli annual production was modest at best. Maybe a few hundred frames per year in the early 60's? I don't think too many frames sat around but stranger things have happened.

Regarding the chrome head tube. I also have never seen a Model B with a chrome head tube. If one looks at the frame it is clear that the plating is a case of its being a "double dipper." The head was plated and the stays were plated. With the higher models such as the SC there is often seat lug plating as well.

It is possible that a previous owner wanted the look of a chrome head tube and stripped the paint from this area.

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Regarding headset -

Came across this photo gallery of nine detailed images of one of these sets. Click on the individual pictures to see enlargements.

https://picclick.com/NOS-CINELLI-Hea...086184343.html

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Velociao
Great place!

Gran Sport or Record RD depending on age would be fitting. All Mod B's I've seen has had top of the line components, just as SC.

Yes the parts that looks original are:
Headset
Cranks
Stem - steel?
Handlebars - steel?

And probably also:
Down tube twin gear cable clip, except the bolt
Chainstay clip

What does the text on the stem read?

New seat binder bolts are available at Cyclomondo.

And yes the wolf ear lugs narrows down the timeframe.

What does the date stamp on the saddle rail read?

For an age clue, I would search around for other model B's with that fork crown, there appear to be a few used for them over time. This one is one of the less graceful ones, but I think original, the bike appears to look and sit correct from the side view. I'm less sure about the paint, I would expect some evidence of the original graphics, somewhere.

Love the steel bar and stem, bike has definitely been updated through the decades.
Actually surprised the cranks were not updated due the the minimal difference between the two rings.

It can be a challenge to locate spindles compatible with the 74mm shell. Campag offered everything at one time: track, road, triple. They even did them all for 3/16" ball ~1962.

The fact that chainset is FB makes me think more "'50's" than "'60's." FB seemed to cease the manufacture of chainsets and headsets prior to the cessation of manufacture of hubs.

Usually when one encounters a Cinelli wearing cottered steel cranks they are the Cinelli-Magistroni five pin model.

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A bit tricky to find an exact match with the cranks, lugs, headset and fork crown.

Here are some close ones:
Cinelli Model B 1955 - speedbicycles.com
Cinelli Only: Cinelli Model B, Circa 1956-1960

Maybe I will change my advice for a RD from Campagnolo Gran Sport to Huret Tour de France