How do YOU pronounce...
#101
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https://www.bikeforums.net/members/samkl-454862.html
Your pronunciation rules are excellent, but you missed on this one. The "Guer" in "Guerciotti" is the same as in the word for "War"; Guerra. It is pronounced like "Gware". The name sounds more like "Gware Chawtee". The "Ci" is as it sounds in "ciao" ("chow" not "chee Ow").
Italian can be very dialectic, "Ciocc" in particular is not a standard Italian word or pronunciation. In Rome, the "Ch" sound in Cinelli is softened to a "Sh". In Florence, sometimes the hard "K" sound of the written "Ch" ( as in Bianchi) is said as in the way that the "Ch" usually sounds in English (like in "church"); the Florentine pronunciation of the hard "C" is sometimes rendered as an voiced "H". Like the expression "Come Stai" (How are You) sounds like "Ho May Sty". The Veneto region has an even more distinct variation in some vowel sounds. But these are really examples of arcane, almost a slang style of regional speech. Standard Italian is as you explained it.
Your pronunciation rules are excellent, but you missed on this one. The "Guer" in "Guerciotti" is the same as in the word for "War"; Guerra. It is pronounced like "Gware". The name sounds more like "Gware Chawtee". The "Ci" is as it sounds in "ciao" ("chow" not "chee Ow").
Italian can be very dialectic, "Ciocc" in particular is not a standard Italian word or pronunciation. In Rome, the "Ch" sound in Cinelli is softened to a "Sh". In Florence, sometimes the hard "K" sound of the written "Ch" ( as in Bianchi) is said as in the way that the "Ch" usually sounds in English (like in "church"); the Florentine pronunciation of the hard "C" is sometimes rendered as an voiced "H". Like the expression "Come Stai" (How are You) sounds like "Ho May Sty". The Veneto region has an even more distinct variation in some vowel sounds. But these are really examples of arcane, almost a slang style of regional speech. Standard Italian is as you explained it.
You are correct that the Florentine street pronunciation varies somewhat when it comes to hard sounds, however I would think it more correct to say that the emphasis simply moves further back in the mouth, from the front of the mouth Italian pronunciation to a more guttural back of the mouth pronunciation. The "CH" however never becomes a soft C like CH in English.
Lastly, Veneto (I speak it daily with my 98-year-old Venetian mother-in-law) is not a different pronunciation but rather different words. Nobody from the Veneto will pronounce a written word differently than somebody speaking standard Italian. They will however readily transliterate into Veneto.
#103
elcraft
Mi dispiace! I guess I stand corrected! I admit that my particular pronunciation may be tainted by my Roman experience. I do recall that Wikipedia suggested that Veneto might be considered as a separate language. I remember having considerable difficulty understanding people in Venice, Padua, and Vincenza. They understood my Roman tainted accent effortlessly.
I felt better about my difficulties in Vincenza,when my Rome based sculpture professor, Paolo Carosone, also had difficulty with the same speaker. We were at a roadside "bar" and noticed a Campagnolo corkscrew at the bar. Since we had seen the Factory sign from the Autostrada, he had been keen to see an example of their workmanship– he was not a cyclist nor ( surprisingly) knowledgeable about Campagnolo. I had explained their use of investment casting and forging when a gentleman at the bar piped up that he was a worker at the factory. Our attempt at conversation was awkward at best.
I felt better about my difficulties in Vincenza,when my Rome based sculpture professor, Paolo Carosone, also had difficulty with the same speaker. We were at a roadside "bar" and noticed a Campagnolo corkscrew at the bar. Since we had seen the Factory sign from the Autostrada, he had been keen to see an example of their workmanship– he was not a cyclist nor ( surprisingly) knowledgeable about Campagnolo. I had explained their use of investment casting and forging when a gentleman at the bar piped up that he was a worker at the factory. Our attempt at conversation was awkward at best.
#105
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I think we haven't discussed Gazelle. I heard a Dutch person pronounce it kha-ZEL-la, with the "kh" being the throat-clearing sound.
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#106
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Pretty close. Although you can safely assume that the Dutch pronunciation is trivial. They got the word from the French, whom in turn picked it up from the Arabs in north Africa in 13th or 14th century. The origin seems to be the Arabic ghâzal. No idea how to pronounce that correctly, so I'll stick with Kha-ZEL-luh for the time being.
#107
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Lezyne pronunciation by company founder is ...
Campagnolo - Campy
Lezyne -- I always say "Lay zeen" because that's how it looks but I heard someone on a podcast say "ley-ziyn" (rhymes with sign) and now I'm confused and can't ever remember what to say and get tongue tied.
Relevant because I have a Lezyne computer and mini pump.
Lezyne -- I always say "Lay zeen" because that's how it looks but I heard someone on a podcast say "ley-ziyn" (rhymes with sign) and now I'm confused and can't ever remember what to say and get tongue tied.
Relevant because I have a Lezyne computer and mini pump.
He gives the origin of the name and clearly pronounces it LEH-ZINE.
I'll have to retrain myself.
#108
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Your proposed pronunciation of Guerciotti is not correct. Paolo Guerciotti, who I have helped out before, and his whole family can confirm this. They all pronounce the "U" and the "E" separately, never as one syllable. To most anglophone ears the separation in the syllables is either not perceptible or just barely, but to an Italian it is clearly evident.
You are correct that the Florentine street pronunciation varies somewhat when it comes to hard sounds, however I would think it more correct to say that the emphasis simply moves further back in the mouth, from the front of the mouth Italian pronunciation to a more guttural back of the mouth pronunciation. The "CH" however never becomes a soft C like CH in English.
Lastly, Veneto (I speak it daily with my 98-year-old Venetian mother-in-law) is not a different pronunciation but rather different words. Nobody from the Veneto will pronounce a written word differently than somebody speaking standard Italian. They will however readily transliterate into Veneto.
You are correct that the Florentine street pronunciation varies somewhat when it comes to hard sounds, however I would think it more correct to say that the emphasis simply moves further back in the mouth, from the front of the mouth Italian pronunciation to a more guttural back of the mouth pronunciation. The "CH" however never becomes a soft C like CH in English.
Lastly, Veneto (I speak it daily with my 98-year-old Venetian mother-in-law) is not a different pronunciation but rather different words. Nobody from the Veneto will pronounce a written word differently than somebody speaking standard Italian. They will however readily transliterate into Veneto.
I know of two separate Marchetti family's in that they pronounce differently. Same spelling as the bike machinery maker.
Anyways, one family uses a hard 'c' unlike the other, whom described it depends on what territory the family lineage is from. Lol
#109
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BTW, it's spelled "H-U-F-F-Y", but it's pronounced "POS".
"It's spelt Throat-warbler-mangrove, but it's pronounced Luxury-Yacht....."
Last edited by madpogue; 11-02-18 at 06:45 PM.
#110
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One of my favorites is Bottechia. Pronounced bo tek ee ya, not bot ah chee ya, lol. 😁
#112
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Bianchi -- "But yours are not that pretty green" <---what I hear, then they mispronounce it Bee-Yan-Chee.
Campy -- Campy Yo Yo (just to mess with my Italian business partner.
Dura Ace -- How much? -- does the tech trickle down to 105?
Campy -- Campy Yo Yo (just to mess with my Italian business partner.
Dura Ace -- How much? -- does the tech trickle down to 105?
#114
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Now that I am the proud owner of one,
Pogliaghi - pole-ya ge
Took me awhile to get the spelling right without having to look it up every time!
Pogliaghi - pole-ya ge
Took me awhile to get the spelling right without having to look it up every time!
#119
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Exactly my point, and McDonald is Irish.
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#120
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Ciocc
I thought Tange was pronounced Tanj.
The LBS corrected me to Tan jay or Tan gay. Or something like that.
What about CIOCC?
I have always pronounced it like Church, with an "io" in the middle?
Who knows......I mumble and drool over C&V bikes and cool parts anyway so no one can really tell what I say.
The LBS corrected me to Tan jay or Tan gay. Or something like that.
What about CIOCC?
I have always pronounced it like Church, with an "io" in the middle?
Who knows......I mumble and drool over C&V bikes and cool parts anyway so no one can really tell what I say.
#121
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Campagnolo -- Crampy (Campy sounds too campy).
Gipiemme -- Gimpy
SRAM -- unpronounceable. Especially their brakes.
Pedal Issi -- (can it possibly get more pompous?) -- contracts to Pissy
Fi'z:&%k -- Sheeeeeet
Gipiemme -- Gimpy
SRAM -- unpronounceable. Especially their brakes.
Pedal Issi -- (can it possibly get more pompous?) -- contracts to Pissy
Fi'z:&%k -- Sheeeeeet
#122
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For Serotta I always thought for year it was "Sir Oh Tah" but I later came to find out it's "Sir Ott Ah". But the best thing I could do is call their phone number and listen to how they pronounced it and it is "Sir Ott Ah".
#123
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#124
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Dura-Ace - "Home Equity Loan"
Ultegra - "ATM"
105 - "Ten-Five" (not to be confused with Five-Ten shoes)
Campagnolo - "Crampy"
Bianchi - "Eduardo"
Huffy - "Dumpster Dive"
SRAM - "SCAM"
NX - "Huffy"
Ultegra - "ATM"
105 - "Ten-Five" (not to be confused with Five-Ten shoes)
Campagnolo - "Crampy"
Bianchi - "Eduardo"
Huffy - "Dumpster Dive"
SRAM - "SCAM"
NX - "Huffy"
#125
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