Cinelli frame with fluted tubes
10-06-17 | 05:28 PM
#26
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
Hello,
Thank you for all your comments and information.
I have done a lot of "rooting around" on here and on the 'net and the acquisition of Cinelli by Columbus in the 1970's is stated elsewhere. Gilco Design certainly were active in the design etc. of many products; whether they were a subsidiary company or were loosely connected to Columbus, I don't know.
They were obviously involved with Columbus tubing as the decals for Columbus MS proclaim, but whether they had any hand in the fluting / crimping etc. of Columbus tubing I can't verify.
On here and elsewhere there are examples, with photographs of fluted frames apparently similar if not identical, to the frame that I have bought in Italy.
Incidentally, the frame which was shipped this past Monday with UPS is of today's date, still in Germany !
FedEx normally ship from Italy to the UK in three days and the Italian postal service in five days.
As I understood from the seller, this frame was made with SL tubing for the professional rider's own use, not for a team. It would be highly unlikely that a team would allow a rider to sell one of their frames, in my opinion.
There are on this bicycle's frame, remnants of decals which from the ebay photographs, I can't identify and it won't be for several days now before I actually take delivery.
If some kind person was able to put the ebay photographs in the meantime on here for me, then please email me :-- oldlampman@oldlampman.karoo.co.uk and I will send them to him / her.
I'm keeping an open mind on this frame, it has a Cinelli fork and therefore the Columbus impress mark will be, or should be, at the base of the steerer tube. The Columbus impress mark is usually also found at the bottom end front of the seat tube but I wont be searching for that under paintwork.
I will weigh the frame and check the angles to see if it is a SL tubed frame.
Your interest is greatly appreciated.
Why I have to copy this and log-in / "Post Quick Reply" again really annoys me [You do not have permission etc] !
Thank you for all your comments and information.
I have done a lot of "rooting around" on here and on the 'net and the acquisition of Cinelli by Columbus in the 1970's is stated elsewhere. Gilco Design certainly were active in the design etc. of many products; whether they were a subsidiary company or were loosely connected to Columbus, I don't know.
They were obviously involved with Columbus tubing as the decals for Columbus MS proclaim, but whether they had any hand in the fluting / crimping etc. of Columbus tubing I can't verify.
On here and elsewhere there are examples, with photographs of fluted frames apparently similar if not identical, to the frame that I have bought in Italy.
Incidentally, the frame which was shipped this past Monday with UPS is of today's date, still in Germany !
FedEx normally ship from Italy to the UK in three days and the Italian postal service in five days.
As I understood from the seller, this frame was made with SL tubing for the professional rider's own use, not for a team. It would be highly unlikely that a team would allow a rider to sell one of their frames, in my opinion.
There are on this bicycle's frame, remnants of decals which from the ebay photographs, I can't identify and it won't be for several days now before I actually take delivery.
If some kind person was able to put the ebay photographs in the meantime on here for me, then please email me :-- oldlampman@oldlampman.karoo.co.uk and I will send them to him / her.
I'm keeping an open mind on this frame, it has a Cinelli fork and therefore the Columbus impress mark will be, or should be, at the base of the steerer tube. The Columbus impress mark is usually also found at the bottom end front of the seat tube but I wont be searching for that under paintwork.
I will weigh the frame and check the angles to see if it is a SL tubed frame.
Your interest is greatly appreciated.
Why I have to copy this and log-in / "Post Quick Reply" again really annoys me [You do not have permission etc] !
That doesn't look like any Cinelli I've seen btw.
Interested in buying a De Rosa?
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...a-replica.html
Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 10-06-17 at 05:34 PM.
10-06-17 | 05:36 PM
#27
Hmmmm.......
Not seeing any expected typical Cinelli details like maybe at least a Cinell BB shell?.....or their typical chrome accents on the lugs.
The decals look very iffy too...... especially the definition around the flying "C"'s........
It still looks like a good quality frame though, but not sure if it is Cinelli good. Maybe better pics would help....
Not seeing any expected typical Cinelli details like maybe at least a Cinell BB shell?.....or their typical chrome accents on the lugs.
The decals look very iffy too...... especially the definition around the flying "C"'s........
It still looks like a good quality frame though, but not sure if it is Cinelli good. Maybe better pics would help....
One of the interesting aspects of Cinelli that obviously did not bother them was that they made a number of fittings with the Cinelli logotype or logo cast into the components, all for resale to other mfgs.
Those who have been around here a long time could probably count and run out of fingers tallying frames that someone thought or was told that they had a Cinelli brand frame because it had Cinelli fittings.
Regarding this bike, the paint just does not image well enough to announce "This is a Cinelli" I am inclined to agree that the graphics package looks odd. For the price is looks like a decent purchase. Cinelli is one of those brands like Colnago where there is enough interest that the desire to brand "up" is strong.
10-06-17 | 05:46 PM
#28
Banned.
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: PAZ
That particular tubing was used by a number of smaller builders - it's not a Gilco product, btw. The ribs here are totally different from any of Gilco's profiles.
Not a Cinelli. Get your money back. It's just too obvious from the pics that it's a repaint/re-decal - and the decals used make it a scam. Unless Cinelli had an outside contractor like Billato build this and then...no, no, no! It's not a Cinelli.
DD
Not a Cinelli. Get your money back. It's just too obvious from the pics that it's a repaint/re-decal - and the decals used make it a scam. Unless Cinelli had an outside contractor like Billato build this and then...no, no, no! It's not a Cinelli.
DD
10-07-17 | 01:17 AM
#31
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2010
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My last reply has not been published for some reason, perhaps it was too critical.
I have therefore no further interest in Bike Forums.
I thank you all for your interest, I wish everybody good luck and safe enjoyable cycling.
Goodbye,
Keith
I have therefore no further interest in Bike Forums.
I thank you all for your interest, I wish everybody good luck and safe enjoyable cycling.
Goodbye,
Keith
10-07-17 | 03:35 AM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,900
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We really tried to be as nice as possible about his bike purchase,...........but I guess reality was just too hard to take for the OP.
Was still a nice bike, but just didn't check all the Cinelli boxes.....but I'm still curious to find out what pleasant surprise could be under that paint......
Was still a nice bike, but just didn't check all the Cinelli boxes.....but I'm still curious to find out what pleasant surprise could be under that paint......
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10-07-17 | 06:55 AM
#33
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Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Saragossa. Spain
Bikes: Peugeot Mont Blanc . Bianchi 28c 1980. Coppi Giro di Lombardia. Vitoria Vintage 1990. Orbea Luarca 1977. Trek 950.
Hi from Spain. This frame remind me a Fausto Coppi Giro di Lombardia. I have one unpainted in my garage. I will try to insert images.
10-07-17 | 07:44 AM
#35
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From: Saragossa. Spain
Bikes: Peugeot Mont Blanc . Bianchi 28c 1980. Coppi Giro di Lombardia. Vitoria Vintage 1990. Orbea Luarca 1977. Trek 950.
10-07-17 | 07:57 AM
#37
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From: Saragossa. Spain
Bikes: Peugeot Mont Blanc . Bianchi 28c 1980. Coppi Giro di Lombardia. Vitoria Vintage 1990. Orbea Luarca 1977. Trek 950.
And be carefully with that "C" without colours. It could be a small spanish builder Contini.Capture+_2017-10-07-15-55-09.png
10-07-17 | 08:46 AM
#38
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I'm thinking that maybe there was a forum glitch. I made another post last night, after seeing the pictures, and there is no trace of it.
10-07-17 | 09:45 AM
#40
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I like that Coppi aside from the SIS RD
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10-07-17 | 09:56 AM
#41
Cinelli and Columbus are both owned by the same family, so for Cinelli to use a Columbus product would be a no-brainer. However, having said that, I rather doubt that this is a Cinelli and hope to be proven wrong once you have photos. The story of some pro having used the bike is obviously not true as Cinelli had not sponsored any pro teams back then.
Keidal, if you post photos of your other bikes perhaps you will learn more about them too.
10-07-17 | 09:59 AM
#42
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Well, I guess we can still have productive thread, even without the [MENTION=191426]keidal[/MENTION]. He is certainly welcome back though. 
[MENTION=381893]MarcoBianchi[/MENTION] that Coppi is pretty cool! Any idea what kind of tubing? Even if the OP's ebay purchase was misrepresented, a Coppi would be a nice consolation prize.
[MENTION=381893]MarcoBianchi[/MENTION] that Coppi is pretty cool! Any idea what kind of tubing? Even if the OP's ebay purchase was misrepresented, a Coppi would be a nice consolation prize.
10-07-17 | 11:45 AM
#44
there is an Oria decal on the Coppi, which DOES have many similarities to the OP's (not a Cinelli) frame. But a cuople differences, too: cable guide placement on TT, stay ends on the dropouts, maybe a different seat lug, but pretty close if not identical in other details. Wonder what contractor made this Coppi? Probably same as made the fake Cinelli, but Contini I think only plagerized the Cinelli graphics, not a prime suspect IMO.
Last edited by unworthy1; 10-07-17 at 11:51 AM.
10-07-17 | 01:56 PM
#45
Interesting Coppi. The headlugs are very similar or the same. The stay terminations at the rear dropouts between the two bikes are quite different.
The winged C on the original poster's bike just... Looks "off" the more it is obvseved.
At the price paid I think is was reasonable no matter what it is. It is rare though that a big name brand bike flies under the radar in such a public auction venue and does not garner solid bids when things look correct.
Of course, if there had been obedient applause, everything would be just dandy.
The winged C on the original poster's bike just... Looks "off" the more it is obvseved.
At the price paid I think is was reasonable no matter what it is. It is rare though that a big name brand bike flies under the radar in such a public auction venue and does not garner solid bids when things look correct.
Of course, if there had been obedient applause, everything would be just dandy.
10-07-17 | 09:18 PM
#47
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That's certainly a nice bike. Cinelli? They say it is not. I'd wonder about Bilotto, Losa, Rossin? Very cool frame. Is that Cinelli logo on the fork crown embossed?
It doesn't seem to be a Cinelli, but I have to say that I could completely agree to be skeptical that you could email Cinelli, have some guy ask around there, and then send back an answer that is definitive. Put another way, they may not be aware of some odd occurrence that happened at their shop (or outsourcer) 30 years ago.
It doesn't seem to be a Cinelli, but I have to say that I could completely agree to be skeptical that you could email Cinelli, have some guy ask around there, and then send back an answer that is definitive. Put another way, they may not be aware of some odd occurrence that happened at their shop (or outsourcer) 30 years ago.
10-08-17 | 09:51 AM
#48
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From: Saragossa. Spain
Bikes: Peugeot Mont Blanc . Bianchi 28c 1980. Coppi Giro di Lombardia. Vitoria Vintage 1990. Orbea Luarca 1977. Trek 950.
Sorryi didn't reply. I'm not allowed to post 5 posts in 24 hours.
Tubing is ORIA TT09 in Coppi frame. But more I look Contini images I think this frame/fork is Contini. They built since 1945, but since 60' they used a lot of Cinelli lugs and fluted tubes too.
Tubing is ORIA TT09 in Coppi frame. But more I look Contini images I think this frame/fork is Contini. They built since 1945, but since 60' they used a lot of Cinelli lugs and fluted tubes too.
10-08-17 | 10:05 AM
#49
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Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Saragossa. Spain
Bikes: Peugeot Mont Blanc . Bianchi 28c 1980. Coppi Giro di Lombardia. Vitoria Vintage 1990. Orbea Luarca 1977. Trek 950.
Capture+_2017-10-08-00-08-54.png
Capture+_2017-10-07-23-59-22.png
Capture+_2017-10-08-00-08-36.png
Capture+_2017-10-07-23-51-56.png
Capture+_2017-10-07-23-34-49.png
Lot of winged "Cs" but not with Cinelli colours.
Anyway Continis are very good frames, they always build with good steel ( Columbus Brain, Genius, Neuron, Dedacciai, Reynolds 501,531,753 BUT Cinelli are only the lugs.
Capture+_2017-10-07-23-59-22.png
Capture+_2017-10-08-00-08-36.png
Capture+_2017-10-07-23-51-56.png
Capture+_2017-10-07-23-34-49.png
Lot of winged "Cs" but not with Cinelli colours.
Anyway Continis are very good frames, they always build with good steel ( Columbus Brain, Genius, Neuron, Dedacciai, Reynolds 501,531,753 BUT Cinelli are only the lugs.