If this needs to go to mechanics then boot it there but I thought maybe some of you may have encountered the same issue.
I have a '74 Raleigh International that I need to triplize because I am fat and the hills here are often steep. I am trying to run a period correct Record/Nuovo Record driveline. However I have modified it with a Red Clover triplizr and 28 tooth granny up front and the Soma long cage mod to the rear with a 30 tooth low.
Problems:
1. The chainline is 48 mm as Sheldon says to measure it and he shows a triple should be 45 mm. This makes it so my FD can [U]barely[U] make the throw with forcing it and then rubs.
2. My BB width is 123 mm (Campy Record with thin cups). However my smallest chainring teeth are only 3 mm from chainstay so I question being able to put on a narrower BB.
I'm reasonably sure that others have made this or something similar work but I can't figure out how to do it.
Thanks
2wheeljones

Well you said that the small chainring has 3 mm clearance and that the front derailleur barely has enough throw to cover the 3 chainrings, so your next step is to go ahead and try it right?
I would think that is your next step - just try it and post back here what is or is not working.

I have a similar setup, but with a 28T large freewheel cog and a 30T small front chainring. Even that is stretching the limits of what the derailleurs are capable of. It's not clear to me what exactly the problem you're having is. If the small chainring is 3 mm from the stays, then obviously you can't use a narrower BB spindle. Note that Sheldon's 45 mm chainlink measurement is for a Shimano setup, so is not necessarily correct for your setup. Also, he says "You may need to move the right crank out farther if the inner chainwheel rubs on the right chainstay, or if the chain rubs on the next larger chainwheel in any combination that you use."

It sounds to me that the problem you're having is that the FD can't make the jump from large to small chainrings. This would depend a lot on how big your largest chainring is. My Campy NR FD is barely managing my 52-42-30 setup. If you have a 52-42-28 on there I'm guessing that you're not going to be able to make it work. Better to go with a different FD or perhaps a smaller large chainring.

basically, chain line is a parallel line to the centerline of the bicycle ..
Back is the center of the cassette/freewhee; 3 of 5 4 of 7 etc.
or the gap between the 2 in the center for even numbers..

the front, the middle chainring on the triple should line up with the back..

A double is set up the gap between the 2, (an even number) is on the chain line..
so the BB spindle has to be longer (on the right end)






.....

Would your front derailleur be able to shift onto the inner ring if it were 2mm closer in? (It just needs to miss. 3mm is way off.) It it can handle a shift further in, consider getting a Phil Wood bottom bracket. It is easy to dial in exactly the chainline you want.

I went Phil Wood when I went triple chainline on my Mooney to get three very different fix gear ratios. Being limited to a double sided track hub where the cogs are very close in relative to any normal, FW or cassette, I needed to move the crankset in as far as possible. My small chainring is 36 or 38 teeth and I have the chainline set so the 38 just about scraped paint. The setup has worked flawlessly.

Phil Wood has many choices for BB dimensions. You have a big selection of axle widths and they can start as symmetrical or their standard asymmetry or you can custom order (for I believe the same price, just a wait) any other dimensions you want. They are very knowledgeable and a joy to work with. (Number one, they are a machine shop, not a store. They keep on hand the units that sell regularly but machining anything else is what they do.)

Ben

Ideally, your chainline would be 45mm, but 48mm is what you have to work with. You could change the spindle to move to 47mm or 46mm, and that may or may not and may or may not shift. Your bicycle was not designed to accept a triple, which is why you are having problems.

Is your front derailleur "period correct" for a triple crank, or are you trying to use a double derailleur? The chainline can be slightly off without any real problems, but you just don't have an appropriate derailleur. Did a 1974 Raleigh originally come with 126mm dropout spacing or 120? If it is 120mm, then the front derailleur it came with was only built for a 42mm chainline, not the 43.5 of 126/130 double crank spacing or the 145 of modern triple.

I think you are going to have to live with a slightly off chainline and find a more appropriate derailleur. The only real alternative is putting clearance dent in your chainstay for the 30t.

[QUOTE=Kontact;20073006]Did Cc
Is your front derailleur "period correct" for a triple crank, or are you trying to use a double derailleur? The chainline can be slightly off without any real problems, but you just don't have an appropriate derailleur.

Did Campy make a triple specific Record derailleur in the mid-70's? I have never seen one listed.

Also, to eliminate confusion I may have caused, the problem is not in shifting to/from the small chainring but rather shifting onto my large (52 T) chainring. My reference to the 3 mm clearance between small chainring and chain stay was to indicate that it may not be possible to use a shorter spindle to get proper chainline.

If no solution can be found, I may just end up using the large chainring as a "chainring protector" and adjust the FD to eliminate its use.

I understood that the problem was getting to the large ring with a double FD that doesn't move out that far.


The "period correct" solution to your problem is either using a period correct TA "compact" crank with two smallish rings, or a period non-Campy front derailleur.

I get that you are trying to keep the bike period, but you just installed a triplizer and a new RD cage, so maybe you should get more flexible about other components rather than having a useless outer ring. What would someone in 1974 have done?

[QUOTE=2wheeljonz;20073097]i use a nuovo front derailleur just the way you describe. it works great for me but i am using 24-39-42 chainrings and had to lower the derailleur considerably.

The problem is the OPs chainstay clearance and resulting 48mm chainline putting the outer ring at the outboard limit of the FD. What's your chainline?

hell if i know.... because i use the 24 for the inside i can get closer. it seems to me tho that using a smaller outer ring helps as well. right now my bike is in 2 degree weather outside so i am not going out to measure.

Any idea what you did with the BB spindle length to get that crank to triple? New Success is a 43.5mm chainline double, normally.

i have a 118mm vo bottom bracket, if that helps.

You could dimple the outside of the chainstay for more clearance, Clarence.

To be clear:
You are using the thin Record BB cups (as used in the Campag Triple) with a NR 68 SS 120 double BB spindle instead of the spiral grooved NR cups?

-Bandera

It was SOP to convert Internationals to triples back when removing the OEM BB and crankset to install a Campag, TA or Sugino triple. The front derail worked perfectly well w/ the common 54/45/36 or 52/42/36 triple set-ups. Rear derails were replaced w/ either Shimano Crane GS or Suntour GT w/ a ST freewheel built to suit the owners preference.

I still have the bit's n bobs of the triple conversion for touring on my '74 lying about.

-Bandera

Stock is 114.5, so your chainline is somewhere between 45.5 and 47mm. Which is inside the 48mm the OP is dealing with.

I'm late to this, but I would just say that 3mm is way more clearance than you need. Find a spindle that gives you maybe 1mm of clearance, or do the same thing with a Shimano (or equivalent) cartridge. If you go with a cartridge BB, start with a 115 mm and add up to 2 1/2mm of spacers under the drive-side cup to fine-tune the clearance. You could also experiment with replacing the standard 3.8mm spacers under the granny ring with 3mm spacers--that will gain you a millimeter. It's impossible to say for sure if that would effect your shifting onto and off of the granny ring, but there's a good chance that it will make no significant difference.

I would not dent the chainstay to gain clearance. That's a knuckleheaded Primitive Pete method if ever there was one. )

EDIT: Oops, did I just call someone a knucklehead? Sorry--no harm meant. I'm just prejudiced against dented frames.

very sharp! i am guessing the 24 tooth ring leaves more clearance that the 30 he is using.

Thanks everyone so far. I will ponder and research more and will appreciate any further suggestions.
2wheeljones

No offense taken, but quite a few bicycle companies and framebuilders might take exception.

[QUOTE=52telecaster;20073125]Bingo! That's the spirit. Half-step-plus-granny, and minimizing the sizes of the two outer rings.

[QUOTE=John E;20073595]I really like the half-step-and-granny setup on my Gran Sport: 47-42-26 in front and a 14-17-21-26-32 rear.

I run a Sugino AT triple 32/40/50 with a 125 spindle and a Suntour Cyclone II FD on my '73 Super Course. I added two spacers on the drive side to get the inner chain ring screws to clear the (already dimpled) chain stay. I just used two 1.37 id cassette spacers, maybe could have gotten by with one. Rear is a Suntour VGT Luxe long cage and Shimano Megarange 34t 6 speed. Not Campy, but it all works great. I have a '64 Legnano, all old school Campy, 42-28 best gear, and walked 3 Eroica hills last time. I expect the Raleigh to ride up the hills next year. I have no idea what the chain line is, but I can ride big big anytime I want, haven't tried small small.

I used a Red Clover triplizer as part of a Campy 47-42-36 setup on my '79 Trek, along with an NR FD, and the appropriate Campy X3 spindle and thin BB cups, and never had an issue reaching the outer chainring. Granted, the FD had little outward travel left, but it did work.