Need help with ID: rusty, French, 650B
#26
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Some other thoughts:
I've looked at other frames with this Simplex shifter mount, and seen similar damage on some of them. Seems like it may well be the result of chafing from the shift lever (and rusting as a result of the metal being bare) so the mount may be original after all.
The vertical brake bolt in the rear brake bridge indicates it was probably made with mudguards in mind, right?
Also, double eyelets on the fork ends point in the same direction:
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Vertical brake bolt and double eyelets is pretty clear it was intended to be fendered and is not a converted race bike.
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I am far from the most knowledgeable person here for old French bikes, but here in France I have seen many 650b bikes with 3 to 5 speeds. Peugeot, as should be obvious from the picture, had the Helium sub-brand. So, it seems to me quite likely that the bike was originally set up with the 650b wheels and a 5 speed (or less).
Hope that offers some minor help.
Hope that offers some minor help.
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I am far from the most knowledgeable person here for old French bikes, but here in France I have seen many 650b bikes with 3 to 5 speeds. Peugeot, as should be obvious from the picture, had the Helium sub-brand. So, it seems to me quite likely that the bike was originally set up with the 650b wheels and a 5 speed (or less).
Hope that offers some minor help.
Hope that offers some minor help.
Nice Helium, BTW.
Thanks. Well that vagueness is one of the main reasons I bought this and many of my other bikes. I like the detective work involved in finding out what is what. And watching the collective knowledge on this forum do its magic.
#31
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Hi Non-Fixie,
I'd like to ask you how the LeSimplex shifter looks
See my picture
This because it would help dating your rusty french bike
From the equipment that looks period
So far it looks post wwII to me but this may help to narrow the period
Good for you, now you can find 650B tyres at D4 shops, at a very low price. Unless you want to spend for names.
The picture is from an intriging Belgian randonneur that I bought in last quarter (Too many new bikes and no time)
The shifter with the S is more recent than with "Le Simplex made in france" and that S marked shifter is already visible on a 1949 Simplex catalog visible on DisraelliGears
I assumed my randonneur being older than that.
I'd like to ask you how the LeSimplex shifter looks
See my picture
This because it would help dating your rusty french bike
From the equipment that looks period
So far it looks post wwII to me but this may help to narrow the period
Good for you, now you can find 650B tyres at D4 shops, at a very low price. Unless you want to spend for names.
The picture is from an intriging Belgian randonneur that I bought in last quarter (Too many new bikes and no time)
The shifter with the S is more recent than with "Le Simplex made in france" and that S marked shifter is already visible on a 1949 Simplex catalog visible on DisraelliGears
I assumed my randonneur being older than that.
#32
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Thanks, @Munny. It's the one with the "S":
This seems to jibe well with my guesstimating the frame to be from the late forties or early fifties.
What are those D4 shops that you speak of? Can't seem to find them. The demi-ballons that I did find online are €9 a pop, so those won't be a problem. However, the wheels that came with the bike are a mixed bag. The front looks like it could be original, but the rear is a replacement, I think. Both have steel rims, unfortunately.
You do realize you will now have to show us the rest of that randonneur, don't you?
This seems to jibe well with my guesstimating the frame to be from the late forties or early fifties.
What are those D4 shops that you speak of? Can't seem to find them. The demi-ballons that I did find online are €9 a pop, so those won't be a problem. However, the wheels that came with the bike are a mixed bag. The front looks like it could be original, but the rear is a replacement, I think. Both have steel rims, unfortunately.
You do realize you will now have to show us the rest of that randonneur, don't you?
#33
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I removed the BB tonight. It came out quite easily, together with a handful of French soil.
No markings to indicate a manufacturer, alas. At first glance it looked OK, but not all is well:
No markings to indicate a manufacturer, alas. At first glance it looked OK, but not all is well:
#34
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I have a cottered spindle. You want me to measure it?
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#36
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Yes, the BB is French.
And I still need to establish the correct seat post size. The one that came with the bike is somewhat oval, and measures between 25.6 and 26.6 millimeters, so I'm expecting something like 26.4 to work. I need to go through my stash and see if I have one to confirm that.
#37
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Thanks for the offer, Tom. Much appreciated. But I don't think it will be necessary. I'm sure I have a nice replacement in my stash. Somewhere ...
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Fittings appear too late for cycle.
Had same thought for chainset in first images.
Lends support to the idea that machine originally came with single plateau gearing.
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What would be your estimate of the velo's birth date?
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My guess is that chainset and derailleurs were replaced at the same time time, somewhere in the seventies, or maybe even early eighties. You may well be right on the single plateau gearing. Removing more of that black paint may confirm that.
What would be your estimate of the velo's birth date?
What would be your estimate of the velo's birth date?
No guesses as to birthday.
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#41
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#42
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When you are looking at these fat tyres, expensive rubber is not lighter.
It is the large quantity of rubber that makes the impressive weight
That one at 9 € = 490g
A swalbe HS159, same price, is ... 580g
A WTB Horizon TCS 650B is lighter than the schwalbe at 515g but ... 5 times the price
Would you want to increase the assets of a know commercial company promoting old 650b, well well ... I see a "Compass 650B x 48 Switchback Hill TC" saving you a mere ...12g and so expensive.
The Japanese groote bos are in the same weight range and same expensive ...
I run these Btwin on a bike and besides the weight, my problem is that they are a bit loose on damp ground
Concerning the front derailleur, you also miss the chain guard and the combine scuicide chainguard derailleur would complement this bike
See you at the ronde
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One additional contradiction noticed -
While both of the cycle's wheels are clearly solid axle the axle slots in the frame ends look to be more than ample to accept a ten mm hollow axle -
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One additional contradiction noticed -
While both of the cycle's wheels are clearly solid axle the axle slots in the frame ends look to be more than ample to accept a ten mm hollow axle -
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#44
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My dear
When you are looking at these fat tyres, expensive rubber is not lighter.
It is the large quantity of rubber that makes the impressive weight
That one at 9 € = 490g
A swalbe HS159, same price, is ... 580g
A WTB Horizon TCS 650B is lighter than the schwalbe at 515g but ... 5 times the price
Would you want to increase the assets of a know commercial company promoting old 650b, well well ... I see a "Compass 650B x 48 Switchback Hill TC" saving you a mere ...12g and so expensive.
The Japanese groote bos are in the same weight range and same expensive ...
I run these Btwin on a bike and besides the weight, my problem is that they are a bit loose on damp ground
Concerning the front derailleur, you also miss the chain guard and the combine scuicide chainguard derailleur would complement this bike
When you are looking at these fat tyres, expensive rubber is not lighter.
It is the large quantity of rubber that makes the impressive weight
That one at 9 € = 490g
A swalbe HS159, same price, is ... 580g
A WTB Horizon TCS 650B is lighter than the schwalbe at 515g but ... 5 times the price
Would you want to increase the assets of a know commercial company promoting old 650b, well well ... I see a "Compass 650B x 48 Switchback Hill TC" saving you a mere ...12g and so expensive.
The Japanese groote bos are in the same weight range and same expensive ...
I run these Btwin on a bike and besides the weight, my problem is that they are a bit loose on damp ground
Concerning the front derailleur, you also miss the chain guard and the combine scuicide chainguard derailleur would complement this bike
I will admit that I'm a little disappointed. Based on my experience with 700c Paselas, I'd expected to find something in the 300-400g range. Will keep the 700C option in mind.
Absolutely!
#45
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Indeed. I hadn't realized, but I unknowingly confirmed that already in post # 22.
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the frame's chainstay gear hanger looks like it may be Cyclo item nr. T/E:
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the frame's chainstay gear hanger looks like it may be Cyclo item nr. T/E:
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Love these mystery frames.
Love these mystery frames.
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I am far from the most knowledgeable person here for old French bikes, but here in France I have seen many 650b bikes with 3 to 5 speeds. Peugeot, as should be obvious from the picture, had the Helium sub-brand. So, it seems to me quite likely that the bike was originally set up with the 650b wheels and a 5 speed (or less).
Hope that offers some minor help.
Hope that offers some minor help.
Designing the frame for single shifters and adding a single clamped on lever was common for French bikes even up to the late '60s or early '70s. I have a '70 ish UO-8 that was made like that.
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did you take a look at this site? www.classicrendezvous.com/France
it's more for the racing bikes, but maybe you see some similarities with yours.
that's how i found the brand and model of my daughters bike. a Jeunet Captivante model 190.
and when i look at the pictures, i see some similarities with LeJeune models.
it's more for the racing bikes, but maybe you see some similarities with yours.
that's how i found the brand and model of my daughters bike. a Jeunet Captivante model 190.
and when i look at the pictures, i see some similarities with LeJeune models.
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Interesting bike, made any more progress with it?
I just now joined this site after this thread popped up on a google search for "French 650b". I'm currently building/acquiring parts for a bike that I would like to use old 36h 650b hoops on. Are these hoops in good condition, and if so would you sell them? Or maybe you have another pair that you would consider letting go?
Apologies for posting this here, being a new member doesn't allow me to PM just yet.
I just now joined this site after this thread popped up on a google search for "French 650b". I'm currently building/acquiring parts for a bike that I would like to use old 36h 650b hoops on. Are these hoops in good condition, and if so would you sell them? Or maybe you have another pair that you would consider letting go?
Apologies for posting this here, being a new member doesn't allow me to PM just yet.