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Old 01-13-18, 09:40 AM   #1
as50x20
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Italian Mystery

I just acquired this bike and am seeking some help in obtaining a possible maker. The frame and fork have been repainted and no identification of the origin was available from the seller. It is Italian (bottom bracket shell threading) with Campy drop outs front and rear. The seat post is 27.2 diameter. The bottom bracket shell has the letters "roto" in a circle along with "italy".
A serial number of GS 1216 and 56 (the size of the frame) are also on the shell. I am guessing that the frame is late '70s or early 80's. Please take a look at the photos and let me know what you think.
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Old 01-13-18, 09:58 AM   #2
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No idea but looks like a good 'un: the quality Roto investment-cast shell puts it a bit later than your guess, I think, even with that cable routing. Let's see the dropouts.
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Old 01-13-18, 10:53 AM   #3
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As per your request! Plus a couple others.
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Old 01-13-18, 11:04 AM   #4
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I won't be able to guess, but a picture of the rear brake bridge might be helpful too.
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Old 01-13-18, 11:12 AM   #5
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-----

thank you for sharing this interesting mystery.

since it is an obvious respray we should be wary of placing too much weight on the presence/absence of braze-on bits.

here is an early eighties era Zeus Cyclery Corporation of NYC catalogue page showing the ROTO (Rampinelli) bottom bracket shell. apologies format not larger. will need to be enlarged a bit to see clearly.

as ever in these matters, we could use a word from member @MauriceMoss...
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Old 01-13-18, 12:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckk View Post
Are those top tube cable guides sections of spring?
-----

Look again and you will see they could not be: no coiling.



-----
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Old 01-13-18, 12:19 PM   #7
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Maybe a Bottecchia Gran Sport. Can you put a picture from an another angle of the seat stay's connection point to seat lug?
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Old 01-13-18, 12:44 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
as ever in these matters, we could use a word from member @MauriceMoss...
Thanks again.

This time it's an easy one, as @Old Fireleg seems to have solved it already.

The frame number format does match of Bottecchias I've seen, and the OP's frame shares some similarities with the frame in this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...lat-black.html

I'm not sure how much variation there was in forks that came with these frames - it could be a replacement.
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Old 01-13-18, 01:24 PM   #9
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OK, a few more photos, but I think you guys are right (and you are freakin' amazing!) However, somebody upgraded the gruppo to Campy Super Record somewhere along the line. Lucky me!
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Old 01-13-18, 02:21 PM   #10
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Individuals can be frame builders, their shop can be a garage..






....

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Old 01-13-18, 03:18 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by as50x20 View Post
OK, a few more photos,
Thanks for the pics!
Yes, typical '70s-'80s Bottecchia-styl seat stay caps.
For the fork-question: here is an another red GS with a similar fork, I think.

https://www.pedalpedlar.co.uk/blogs/...a-v-bottecchia
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Old 01-13-18, 08:52 PM   #12
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Nice work all youse guys! I did not think the Roto BB shell was available until about '84 so I'm now better informed and you all nailed it as a Carnielli product. Color me impressed!
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Old 01-13-18, 09:12 PM   #13
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Here's what yours probably looked like before the repaint...

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjtNPzXs







All the same details, different bottom bracket shell. Can't tell if the fork crown matches from your pics.


edit: oops just noticed, someone beat me to it with my own pics haha
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Old 01-14-18, 08:51 AM   #14
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Nice work all youse guys! I did not think the Roto BB shell was available until about '84 so I'm now better informed and you all nailed it as a Carnielli product. Color me impressed!
The Malvor-Bottecchia Proteam even used over gear cable routing BB shell in 1985. And clamp-on FD fixing even in 1986. Pretty conservative manufactory.
Saronni's Colnago has already in Goodwood 1982 braze-on FD fixing and new type BB shell. The '86 or '87 Bottecchia catalog shows only the top SLX model with under routing BB shell. In the '88 catalog already all types are with under cable routing BB,
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