At this point he should make the business subscription/membership based. Look at Costco, they hit you up for $50 a year, maybe more...I no longer belong, to shop for mass quantities of crap.

לא דק. If he/Grant was collecting customer credit/debit-card information and then dunning our accounts, that would be חוצפה; but not this... not when he explained the "what" and "why".

My people would call it שיתוף פעולה.

haha maybe, I don't consider it shiitu*uf when we aren't involved in anything but continuously funding someone who desperately needs an accountant...

I don't want to rehearse the previous arguments I've made so I'll just say good luck! I bought something last month with my card so nothing for me now.

In looking at the site, it seems to me that the business is attempting to sell to a familiar audience, bikes that may do things the previous purchases cannot.
An interesting avenue, but not probably effective.

This type of appeal has been common for Rivendell for about....25 years. Grant is pretty transparent now and has been previously, about the cash flow problems of small, niche business. I have an A. Homer Hilsen Frame I bought new in 2013. Best bike I have ever owned for the way I like to ride. The problem it creates for Rivendell is that I don't need a second.....

Riv, like many small builders had used Waterford for production but they are so busy (or a least that is what I think I read) that they are not currently building except for their own brand. Plus, Riv's [pricing was always less than Waterford, for effectively the same frame. I think it was a situation of ordering 100 vs. 1. Not a on of margin built in.

Lots of folks don't care for Riv, the "business model", Grant or their stance on racing etc. To each their own. I am glad they are around, love my bike and hope they continue to survive.

How hard would it be for them to offer at least one model with disc brakes? :twitchy:

Depends on how hard it would be for them to do it without Grant after he had a heart attack over it. :rolleyes:

I'm a little short on cash right now... I didn't save any money last year, even though I knew I should. Contact me for my email address so you can PayPal me twenty dollars..
Thanks

Sure thing. In return, you can send me a pair of Siver Shifters or an artisanal hatchet, right?

There are a few others who do not do or do not plan on building for disc brakes. That is an interesting view though.
One has to look no further than VeloOrange to see a brand where the core world view would not be disc brakes but do offer some models with now.

if they were searching for a model to garner additional sales to those who already own, how about a demountable? for travel?
Yes, I know it is harder than angles and lug patterns.

I wouldn't even consider one of the new ones...some tig welded, those beyond ridiculous chainstays, same overseas stuff as everyone else. Now, an original Atlantis is basically my dream bike.

edit: and thinking about it more, Rivendell should be killing it considering the market is all about camping and gravel bikes right now. But riv's drop bar bikes have super limited tire clearance and their upright bikes are all the same and don't work for everyone. Upright bars hurt my back like crazy, and i've tried long chainstays and dislike them.

Maybe an annual Telethon?

From the Rivendell Google Group:Grant @ Rivendell[img]data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABUAAAAVCAYAAACpF6WWAAAAjUlEQVQ4y2P4//8/A7Uxw6ihtDMUC5hPgI8BCBkKMuA/Hj7JhjZADUhA45NtaAJUcz8aH4bXA3EBECsQa2gCkkZsBqLj+eiGYzMUphim8D8R+D0QG1DTpRgGkxum+6H4Ppr4fUKxn4AW+/04Yl8AqgZmQQI106kANMjOUztHgQy+T4yhpIKE0aKPdoYCAImSEHs38yO+AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC[/img]

9:08 PM (10 minutes ago)
We "crowdsourced" store credits---not donations--- at a critical time for us, and if you contributed and haven't bought anything, your credit remains on the books. We've never asked for outright donations, and I wouldn't do that. Many businesses--from wholesalers like Trek, etc---and virtually all local bike shops--buy "on terms"--with 30 to 120 days to pay for the inventory. This is how we buy small parts, but anything that comes from Japan, we pay in 1 week before we receive it, and anything from Taiwan--bikes, cranks--we pay 60 days before we receive it. This is not something we can negotiate. Tubing suppliers, painters, all those guys have to be paid and don't offer payment terms to small guys like us. In any case, it is a formula for horrible cash flow, which is our main angst.

When I say this stuff, it comes off as whining. I think everybody should do (1) restaurant work; and (2) own a small business...for the perspective.

Our customers are excellent. Our critics are relatively few. Our team is wonderful. I am not a crackerjack business manager, and that -- not our people, bikes, or intentions--will be what kills us. "Just hire a business manager" presumes things that aren't true.

If anybody would like to criticize or advise me directly, it's easy. (925) 933-7304 usually between 10:15 am and 4pm west time (I work mornings from home). Or email gr.. [MENTION=121316]Rivbike[/MENTION].com.

I give Grant Petersen a huge chunk of credit for helping to keep me on a bike when I first started riding . I got discourage a lot by my own lack of ability and by others who were thoughtful enough to let me know what they thought of the large man riding the bicycle. His book Just Ride gave me some thoughtful and practical advice on riding , he also communicated that its ok to not be in the racer cult and ride a bike .

I wish I could do more as a customer for Rivendell but my cycling budget is pretty limited in reality. I buy what I can when I can and that includes from RBW.

Hi all...
Just saying although I've never bought a thing from Rivendell, I've always wanted to and promote them as much as possible. I was a Bridgestone owner (technically still am, but gave my slightly too small for me MB-4 to my daughter) and can't imagine the world without the bikes Grant designed and did the spec'ing on. So what's best? A purchase where he keeps all the markup? I don't know a book he's written? Something that is produced in house?), or exclusive parts (they still cost something). Wish I could truly swing a bike...I'm no weight weenie, and love the premise of the Rivendell bikes. Some still call me "retro-grouch"..,

If I ever come into money, my kids, wife, son-in-laws, gkids would take a flight to sunny SoCal, and he could hook all of us up!

So what's the best way to get pure cash in his Sands? someone tell me please...

I'm pretty sloppy with money myself, so I can understand how this happens. I don't think it takes an MBA to realize that huge sales of gift cards in February is going to lead to slower than average sales in December. In fact, I'm sure Grant expected that. There's just not much he could do about it.

.https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5cc6a64b97.gif

Small acts...
 

Just thought I'd add a comment:

as human beings, shouldn't we strive to be better? Small acts can have a significant effect on so many. Recently a fb friend posted what one of her friends (IRL), does when out for a meal (usually in a family type restaurant). She and her husband look around for a family that could maybe use a little help. Secretly they buy the family's meal (usually 4 meals, but sometimes more). They do this to remind themselves how tough it was when their kids were small and money was tight, and how often folks who might not really be able to afford to eat in a restaurant sometimes do as some sort of small celebration.

Another one: in Calgary (Alberta) there is a rustic pizza place that get's it "right". The wife is a baker, and all dough is scratch made. Custom, made to order pizzas at a very reasonable price (sorry can't recall the name of it). Posted on their door is a 8 1/2" x 11" sign: "If you are hungry, come inside, and be our guest. No one needs to go hungry". Anyone who states that they are hungry and have no money will recieve a hot meal, with not obligation to work for the meal or repay them at a later date. Of course they consider whether you pulled up in a new Jag, or other luxury car, or are obviously not broke.

As indicated in the quote posted above, To me this is what a community is about, or should be. So if Grant finds the coffers a little shy, why (as cyclists) would we not want to help? Certainly Rivendell coud put say a 8 month time limit on using a gift certificate to help allieviate some of the problems, but a crowd sourced "loan" is not the worst. What kills me is when a plea goes out fom a known established business that is flourishing, to introduce their "newest, biggest, baddest" product looking to cover their engineering costs. I know this is not the case with Rivendell. Their products are curated, looking for the best of a particular product of its type from around the world, and other than (perhaps colour) change year to year for the sake of change (not because the change offers an improvement or increased value.

I was 100% certain his "Hail Mary!" wasn't be to be his last. Grant is a bike bum in every sense of the term.

As a self employed person for 35+ years I know how this can happen. I don't throw stones as I am no expert. Grant P. is one hell of a guy and always answers when I have emailed him. I have a Bridgestone that was pre G.P. ( Kabuki) and he has told me specifics about my bike so he has a vast amount of knowledge. I don't always a agree with his take on things , but respect his opinion as a purist. I have one of his older books on cycling around the Santa Cruz mountains and it is great. I wish him the best , doing what we do is considerably tougher than the average 9-5 job with benefits! My health insurance alone is $2200 a month , I can't imagine trying to support a shop on bicycles LOL Joe

Yikes.

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peekin...-of-the-bunion

An interesting post. Somehow, over whatever happened at Rivendell for the couple of years I was away from this site, and the present day's writing, I'm getting the feeling that Rivendell is slowly reaching the end of its natural lifespan. As in, they're sating what market there is for the kind of product they produce.

While I've enjoyed watching them exist, and love to look at their bikes in the metal (the five or six that I've seen in the past fifteen years), I've never been a customer, and never will be. Mainly because I've never seen the need to spend the money on a custom bike, given my riding ability, riding style, and most likely distances to be covered in a day. (Now that I think of it, this is also why top of the line carbon fiber bikes with 11-speed electronically controlled drivetrains don't appeal to me either). I'll freely admit that my love for cycling is a continuum of my twenties in glam-rock Erie, PA and the kind ministrations of the late Merle Adams, owner of A. R. Adams Cycle, and the guy who taught me how to take what skills I had and become an effective professional bicycle mechanic - and turned out to be the second best boss I've had in my employment history (the lady I'm retiring on in six weeks is the only person to beat him).

I don't need more than a Seventies bicycle to keep me happy and my love of antique vehicles ensures I'll have some Sixties and Eighties bikes in there to keep the core collection occupied. And given the cost of a Rivendell, I can certainly restore to factory original two or three 'lesser' bicycles that'll take care of my riding needs for as long as my health endures.

Unfortunately, in the progression of things, the situation changes. And in Rivendell's case, I think they're starting to run out of customers. Should the fateful day come, I'll sniff, feel a moment of sadness . . . . . . . . and turn back to the workbench where I'll be working on the next Rossin.

Been following Grant and Rivendell since Bridgestone. Had a couple B'stone catalogs, and a big stack of early Riv Readers. Nothing but admiration. IMO Grant almost single-handedly shifted the direction of the industry. He created a demand for something outside the mainstream of bike development, i.e., what Shimano and the other big companies were promoting. Companies like Velo Orange owe their existence to Grant Petersen, as do products like the big clearance Tektro sidepulls now used on so many bikes. I can see the business problem, though. His bikes are expensive but still probably just barely cover his costs, which must be enormous. Even though many of his customers own multiple Rivs, still, all that work (meaning time) developing the frames, the back and forth, the redesigns, then for each customer the component selection and assembly, he probably doesn't clear that much on each bike. And here I am. As big a fan as I am I've never bought one. I can't justify to myself owning such an expensive bike, as much as I would like to.

I agree with your "natural lifespan" comment. I've purchased parts from Riv in the past, and even bought a gift card that I didn't use. Situations and markets do change. If your company does not have the will or capital to meet the challenge, you will eventually become a victim of change. I am afraid Riv is at that point.