Narhay

This thread makes me chuckle a bit. Almost every question cropping up I had to deal with as well.

Narhay's Raleigh Super Course

Pictures are gone but text remains. That cable stop will work and I did the same until i found a Shimano 600 arabesque FD with built in cable stop.

lacro

In my search for suitable replacement parts for my SC build, I canvassed friends for their old parts collections. One friend's brother has a vintage Raleigh USA Super Course (probably 1983) that I can have pretty cheap or maybe nothing. However, it is way too big for me, and the components are nothing special. The frame is 60-62cm. Someone has replaced the wheels with Performance brand wheels with sealed bearing hubs (specialized?) and Mavic MA40 rims with DB spokes. The brakes/levers are unknown side pulls. The crank is Raleigh alloy (Ofmega). F&R, derailleurs, and shifters are Shimano, but unknow model.

I don't know if it's even something worth bothering with?

jimmuller 

That may be too big for you but there are plenty of C&V members who'd be delighted to have that bike and it's components. They are decided NOT "nothing special" even if they aren't world-class competition level.

Some components may not go on your frame easily, like the centerpull brakes. The components won't be chronologically correct, but they may perform quite well. If someone offered me that bike I'd take it, either build it up for a friend (it's too big for me too), or sell the frame and use what parts I needed and save the rest for some future project or to give away.

ryansu

it would be worth it just for those lovely Shimano golden arrow DT shifters and RD

lacro

I am, not to the point yet of installing bar tape, but I have a couple questions about doing it: How do I get the tape around the brake lever clamp when the stiff Carlton hoods don't fold out of the way like the softer rubber ones. Also,what is the best way to terminate the tape at the bar ends when using Barcon shifters?

dddd

It's actually simple to work around the hoods, and just by lifting the edge slightly you can tuck the tape well under the edge in a continuous flow as you work the length of the tape into place.
After doing a couple of bikes with aged hoods that were barely flexible without tearing, I find that the job is not that hard to get a perfect result.
You of course start by applying a ~2" piece over the clamp, tucked well under the edge of the hood by 1/4", and secured adhesively using contact cement if necessary. Keeping tension on the tape is of course the challenge that makes for a top-quality wrapping job.
Be prepared to reposition the 2" strip slightly if the wrapped tape leaves a triangular window of exposed metal, I tilt the 2" strip of tape slightly in the direction of the bar tape's spiral.
Also be prepared to unwrap a few turns and re-do any section that is not looking right. Practice in real time, soon you'll be looking at a very "pro" result.
Those Carlton hoods are really quite good at what they do and are incredibly durable and age-resistant. Just never try to force a ferrule through the snout or the hood will surely split. I have a rare example with the "CARLTON" lettering stamp upside-down!


I terminate tape with a spot of tubular glue and a couple of wraps of adhesive tape. I always start the wrap at the ends of the bars (going UP around the outside), with no change of wrap direction passing the hoods. Slant-cut the final end at a shallow angle like 20 degrees, you can glue down the last inches all the way to the point if you want, and clear adhesive tape can finish it off nicely if you use care.

jimmuller 

Careful. There are a lot of SC lovers here.

And for what it's worth, I rode today's commute on my UO-8 and continue to marvel at how much I like it, even though it is clearly not on a par with the better bikes in my fleet.

Some bikes just have a charm that transcends raw performance.

Lascauxcaveman 

Any bike that "rides like a SuperCourse" is doing OK in my book. I've had many other bikes come and go that fell well short of that mark.

lacro

Thanks for the detailed tutorial!

lacro

You sound like my friends that think I should just buy a quality, modern bike. One friend showed me his 14#, $8000, CF Colnago, and looks at my relic and just shakes his head. For me it's not always about having the very best available just because you can. This is a labor of love of restoring something that would have ended up in the scrap heap.

Apparently I am not alone in this pursuit of old steel restoration, just look at all the responses in this thread. Dozens of posts with info, and ideas on how to proceed with my project. It's like having a group of expert helpers looking over my shoulder eagerly awaiting the finished piece....

The process is therapeutic for sure. It's totally satisfying spending countless hours dismantling, cleaning, polishing, rebuilding wheels, etc. using bike tools I haven't touched in 30 years! I will definitely end up with more $ invested than I could ever get for it, but it's been money well spent, as this journey has been priceless! And, I am building this SC to ride, not hang on the wall.

lacro

I didn't have the heart to strip parts of this old bike, so I returned it to owner. He can sell it or give it away, hopefully it stays in one piece, and gets back on the road.

rustystrings61 

Back when I was a skinny teenager, one of the books that shaped me as a cyclist was Richard Ballentine's Richard's Bicycle Book. Somewhere in there was a sentence along the lines of, "One of my greatest and happiest tours was on a battered 1935 BSA that shed its vital parts like water." Newest/latest/greatest/lightest/spendiest may have its place, but it doesn't guarantee a better ride at all.

Rescuing something wonderful from the scrap heap is always good. To this day, the one bike I truly regret selling was one I built up on a c.1970 Raleigh Grand Sport or Competition frame I plucked from a trash pile by the side of the road.

davlafont

Are you guys building a 1/24th scale model of a Super Course? I've got a set of vintage camel hair brushes that might help, but they need to be soaked in paint thinner first...

Here's a less smart a$$ response:
I painted my SC using Rustoleum Aged Metallic series, Metallic Rust color.
My Next Classic: Raleigh Super Course

It came out good enough for my purposes, which is to evoke the past, not to replicate it.
My Next Classic: Raleigh Super Course

But it lacks that original orange glow. I've been on the prowl for Duplicolor Metalcast Orange Anodized locally which I think might do the trick. The Metalcast system was intended for automotive use and had a base coat of grey plus a variety of candy colors to go over it for a quasi-anodized look. I suspect it wasn't super popular (i.e. profitable) so it's not easy to find for me locally. It's on the internet, so I might give it a try next year when I go to re-paint.

I've also been reluctant to "get the paint right" because that will scream and beg for repro decals which aren't cheap and will start me on a slippery slope I don't want to go down.

ryansu

Ignore the noise @lacro and keep on doing what your doing, it looks great and I am sure it will ride just as well. Chapeau

Charles Wahl

I don't know if this has been addressed, but because you appear to be interested in riding wider tires: I can tell from your first picture, and knowing a bit about Raleighs of this vintage, that the limiting factor on how wide a tire you can fit will be the clearance between the rear chain stays. If you have a 27" or 700C rear wheel with a tire mounted and inflated (of any width), it's not that difficult to determine.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2013/...ire-can-i-run/

If not, you can improvise, a bit hypothetically: a 700C rim with a 35 mm tire will have its max. width about 333 mm from the axle, so you could measure from the center of the rear dropout slots (I like to use where the seat stay axis intersects the slot) 333 mm forward, mark that station with a sharpie (can be removed with isopropyl alcohol), and measure (preferably with a dial or digital caliper) the distance between the chain stays there. The absolute max tire width you could fit is probably 6 mm less than that clearance (3mm per side); but with variation in manufactured size, slight increase in actual width as a tire ages, and accounting for slight out-of-true or a broken spoke, a lot of people feel that 12 mm is a better subtraction. The math is slightly different for the same tire on a 27" rim: that's 630 mm "bead seat diameter" (BSD) rather than the 622 for a 700C, so you have to add 4 mm (half the difference in diameter, since we're talking about radius now). That makes the 333 mm above 337 mm instead.

You can fit a 35 mm tire to a 13 mm inside-the-walls rim, but it's pushing the envelope, especially with rims that don't have a bead hook. And a wider tire will be more comfortable and less liable to blow out (roll less in the turns) on a wider rim. I like Velocity Synergy rims, but they seem to be going out of production. Their replacement, A23, is 23 mm wide overall, with 18 mm inside width; that would suit a wider tire better, and give a better ride that could be inflated to lower pressure for more comfort, without increasing the chances of pinch flats (tube getting pinched btw rim bead and tire bead). The A23 (like the Synergy previously) also is available in an off-center (OC) design for rear wheels, where the spoke holes are actually off the rim centerline, to reduce the dish required -- makes spoke tension more nearly equal! Another well-regarded wider rim is the H+Son TB14. Despite its name, it's also a 23 mm width rim. They also make the Archetype, 23 mm wide, but more "aero" in appearance. There are also the Compass Cycle rims (Grand Bois or whatever) in this type, and Velo Orange probably sells some, maybe Soma too.

Wheels are expensive, of course, and maybe you'd rather stick with what you have -- you can use what you have to the greatest extent, and do "optimized" max. width tires with new rims, spokes, and hubs as a "project for later".

By the way, in case it's a concern: I have knee issues with walking or running, but no knee pain while riding. The mechanics are different, obviously. Others may have the opposite, experience, so as always YMMV.

noglider 

@onyerleft, a lot depends on how you ride the bike. I'll be converting mine to a gravel bike. There's hardly a frame more worthy of this duty. My Super Course has served as a commuter, a tourer, a hauling bike, and other purposes. It's been a lot of fun through all of them. If you want a high end nimble racing bike, you won't like the Super Course.

@lacro, I have an idea. I have a collection of cheapish cottered cranks, most or all of which will be an upgrade from the original cottered crank you have. Plus you can get it working. I also have a collection of square taper bottom brackets of various lengths. I could ship you both collections, you figure out what works, and ship me back what you don't use. Keep the Raleigh USA bike intact and move it on to someone who fits it.

lacro

Thanks for the detailed info. I have the original 27" wheels rebuilt new SS spokes, and I am going with 27 x 1-1/4" tire which I assume (hope) should be no fit problem.

lacro

I have just scored an alloy crank set, so I probably won't be using the Stronglite steel cottered crank at this point, but that may change at some point. I may take you up on the square taper BB's as I don't yet know the length needed, and having several to try is a good thing.

lacro

Build update:
After everyone suggesting I try a bike co-op for parts, I searched several reasonable driving distance cities, and found one. I was able to get some needed parts. I picked up a SR Sakae CR alloy crank set. It's a triple, but this CR model was available as a double or triple using the same arms, so I can easily remove the 3rd ring for use as a double. The rings are 50/45/28 with 110BCD/74BCD. I have a Sugino 42T, 110 ring that also fits I can sub for the 45, if I want. The arms were scratched and dirty. I cleaned the crud off, and wet sanded to remove the anodizing, and polished with brown rough on a buffing wheel, followed by Mothers. I think the arms polished up pretty good.

Also, I found a damaged Suntour V-GT Luxe RD at the Co-op. The cage was slightly bent, chewed up. scratched, and a screw that attached the cage half's together was broken, so I had to drill it out, and re-taped the hole larger. I had to modify a new screw to fit the recess, but it worked out perfectly. Cleaning/polishing brought it back to life. Lots of time and effort, but satisfying work for sure, to bring back to life something that was basically scrap!

My search for the rear brake adjuster was solved by Mike J sending me one. However, it was the wrong size, so I drilled and tapped the seat stay bridge so the one I received would thread in. Problem solved!

My current need is how to determine the correct BB for the Sakae CR alloy crank set. There is NO current info for the proper BB length for this SR crank set at Sheldon Brown. Any suggestions appreciated.

BTW/ the original steel Stronglite crank set, (less BB) weights 40 oz.!!! The SR alloy crank set weighs 22 oz....

noglider 

BB spindles have always mystified me, which is why I have a collection.

Slightspeed

I just completed new bar wrap, Brooks leather on my '73. The Carlton hoods were indeed stiff, and took some persuading to get the cut pieces of leather to go inside the hood edges. I took a large flat blade screw driver, and gently pried the hood edges up a little to feed the leather thru. A putty or old butter knife might have been better, but I was getting frustrated and the screw driver was handy. It all worked out. Though the leather is pretty tough, not sure how well cloth, cork, or plastic type tape would fare. I started at the bar ends, gave a full wrap, no added adhesive, except what the bar wrap had on the back. I continued wrapping up towards bar center, had to lift the hoods just a little to get the running bar wrap under the hoods top and bottom. I then finished the wrap, used electricians tape to secure the ends, then covered the electrial tape with the black self adhesive finishing tape Brooks provided. I completed today's Eroica CA, and the new leather bar tape felt really good, and held up well.

As for SC vs. Modern, I have both, ride both, and am guilty of spending way too much on this one. If anybody thinks it's crazy to spend money on a lowly SC, I say get over it. I had a great time on today's Eroica, a comfortable, good handling bike, worth every penny I overspent on it. It's a joy to ride, and I got a lot of positive compliments on it today.

As for your doner bike, those look like Mavic MA40 rims, which are what I have on my SC, laced to large flange Campy hubs. It's a great combination, and I like the look of the dark anodize against my dark green paint.

lacro

Your bar tape looks great, as does your whole bike! The donor bike is going back to it's owner intact. Even though I could have used some of its parts, especially the wheels. I don't want to see it parted out. Somebody can be riding it as is. The wheels on it are not original to the bike. They have MA40 rims, but the hubs are Performance branded which look just like the old Specialized hubs that have sealed bearings.

I have a few questions about your SC:

I see you were able to exit the bar end shifter cables out the end of the tape job. How is that working out? It sure looks better than sticking out back near the bottom of the drops as most do.

Also, I see you used a cable guide at the bottom of the seat tube for the FD. Did you do that because your FD didn't have a cable stop on it?

How do you like the SC with the triple, and the megarange freewheel? I now have a crank set that I can use as a double or triple. I was thinking about just going as a double, but the triple may be handy at times. I know it depends on the intended use, but this old body may need the extra gear even though I know triples are clunky.
Decisions, decisions?

Slightspeed

Thanks for the nice words. I'm very happy with this bike, my first build from "scratch". I like the cleaner shifter cable routing, rather than exiting horizontal to the lower drops. I have a '64 Legnano, since new, and that's how it was routed by the factory, and that's what I'm used to. There are two problems doing this method. I like the stainless steel coiled type housings for less friction, maybe just perceived, not actual. The ss housings I used were a little short to reach the upper cable stop, so I "MacGyvered" it a bit by splicing additional housing with a bit of 3M foil duct tape to join the sections together (hidden by bar tape). The other problem is that the cables can rub paint from the side of the head tube as routed. I put a couple pieces of clear adhesive plastic to protect the paint, then as belt and suspenders, added a short length of rubber tubing over the ss housing. I've thought if using clear plastic tubing, but didn't have any handy. There are probably other commercially available solutions too. As for performance, the Suntour bar ends work perfectly fine for me this way.

My bike was built from a scrap metal "find", Some misguided moron had ground off all the cable guides on the top tube, lower guide at the BB, even the rear chain stay guide. I had the top tube guides replaced by brazing. I added a Campy dual bottom guide because you're right, my Suntour Cyclone II FD had no stop. I used a clamp on rear cable guide at the RD, so as not to upset what chrome had survived. I'm pretty happy with the triple 50/40/32t Sugino AT crank, and Megarange combo. My best gear on the Legnano is a 42/28 which I rode on Eroica last time. Big hills there. Yesterday I rode the Raleigh over the same roads with the triple, best gear 32F, 34R, and was able to ride much further up the hills, but I still had to walk a couple. It shifts pretty well, though I get hung between front rings every so often. I do have a spare Sugino GT compact double 52/34 that I may switch to since Eroica is over. The toeclip pedals are also going back in the box where they belong, SPDs going back on since Eroica is done. One other tip. I replaced the brake pads with Kool stop dual compound pads in modern Tektro holders, which really improved the old Weinmann centerpulls braking perfornnance.

The MA40s were "free" from a bike club friend. At first the dark finish put me off but with the skin wall Paselas, I'm very happy with the look and the ride. I did have to replace the rear Campy hub, which cracked in the web between the oval holes, 2 places. Otherwise, it's been a great building experience, and a joy to ride. Good luck with yours. I was a lurker on BF while trying to figure mine out, glad to give back a little.

noglider 

My 1971 Super Course has a triple crank, and I ride it up a gravel hill called Heart Attack Hill in Lake Minnewaska State Park Preserve. If you can make a triple work on your bike, and you should be able to, you'll find it worth the effort.

Slightspeed

Here's a better shot of the cable routing, before I changed the tape, also how I protected the head tube paint, not very elegant, but it seems to work.

I agree on the triple. If you're used to 20 speed modern bikes, a 3 x 6 is almost as good. I go between fronts a lot with only 6 in back, one being a 34t granny. My 68 year old legs appreciate it.