PX10 find!
05-12-18, 02:53 PM
#26
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The damage done due to the over-tightened kickstand is unfortunate but it is still a cool find. Clean it, service it and ride it IF it fits you well enough. Man that is a tall frame! I have no idea if that frame damage can or should be repaired but who knows. I also have a blue '72 PX10 and loved building it up. It is a size smaller than I normally ride but I made an exception for this bike. I kept it mostly period correct with the exception of tapping the crank for clipless pedals.
05-12-18, 02:58 PM
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That's a sweet deal on a sweet bike. I've been looking for one of those for some time with no luck but then I picked up a mercier 300 in kelly green and a mid 70s Peugeot PR 10 in white so I think I'm done when it comes to reynolds 531 french goodness.
05-12-18, 03:31 PM
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Royal Blue. There should be a date code on the RD cage and another on the handlebar (if its the original steel bar) Pre-1970 as the head and seat tube badges with change from the triangle style to the rectangle/square style in '70. But, as with everything Peugeot there are many exceptions.
Considering the crimped chain stays I wouldn't hesitate to tap and modify the RD hanger
Considering the crimped chain stays I wouldn't hesitate to tap and modify the RD hanger
05-12-18, 04:02 PM
#29
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Royal Blue. There should be a date code on the RD cage and another on the handlebar (if its the original steel bar) Pre-1970 as the head and seat tube badges with change from the triangle style to the rectangle/square style in '70. But, as with everything Peugeot there are many exceptions.
Considering the crimped chain stays I wouldn't hesitate to tap and modify the RD hanger
Considering the crimped chain stays I wouldn't hesitate to tap and modify the RD hanger
"original steel bar" - on a ca. 1970 PX-10E?
-----
05-12-18, 08:00 PM
#31
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-----
Thank you Jim!
Interesting also to see the Juy marking...could not recall when that began so was unsure if bicycle late enough for it.
-----
Thank you Jim!
Interesting also to see the Juy marking...could not recall when that began so was unsure if bicycle late enough for it.
-----
05-12-18, 08:08 PM
#32
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Sweet! This is awesome information. I just checked the derailleur cage - 4/69. Where would one find the date stamp on the alloy bars? Under the bar tape somewhere?
05-12-18, 08:11 PM
#33
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Can anyone shed light on the 'E' and other designations in addition to the 'PX10' terminology. I found another post that had a list of the letters, but it indicated non-specific changes or upgrades. Something about 'luxury' enhancements. Anything in particular that separates an 'E' from a regular? And how can one tell?
Thanks!
Thanks!
05-12-18, 09:56 PM
#34
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Alright, I took the sealed bearing 9 speed 700c wheelset I had lying around, cleaned them up, put some skin on, and mounted on the old gal -
Before:
After:
To be honest, I kind of liked the classy look of the high flange hubs more, but this wheelset will be so much more useful. I haven't done anything to the frame yet, but cold-setting will be in it's future. I took it for a little spin, but it was short lived as the old chain wasn't too happy having to squeeze between all those cogs
And, as promised, pictures of the carnage!
And now the fun ones!
Before:
After:
To be honest, I kind of liked the classy look of the high flange hubs more, but this wheelset will be so much more useful. I haven't done anything to the frame yet, but cold-setting will be in it's future. I took it for a little spin, but it was short lived as the old chain wasn't too happy having to squeeze between all those cogs
And, as promised, pictures of the carnage!
And now the fun ones!
05-12-18, 11:28 PM
#35
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Yikes! That is severe, however it does not appear to be life threatening so be not detered, full speed ahead. 
And get that cracked FD off of there before it comes off by itself and causes more damage.
And get that cracked FD off of there before it comes off by itself and causes more damage.
Last edited by merziac; 05-12-18 at 11:34 PM.
05-13-18, 02:29 AM
#36
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1966-1970 Peugeot PX-10
Based on the Peugeot down tube decal, the frame is a 1966-70 PX-10. Almost all of those bikes where white with with black painted Nervex Pro lugs. Prior to that, PX-10s were blue with yellow lugs. I've heard tell of a few blue PX-10s from the late 60's era. Blue PX-10s were common later in the 70's but they had different decals and lugs.
The Simplex Criterium RD is stamped 2 69. I would trust that February, 1969 date more than the 1973 date on the AVA bars.
Cheap French alloy bars from that era tended to start drooping which eventually led to catastrophic failure. It's likely they may have been replaced BITD.
Look for a date code stamped into the cantle on the underside of the Brooks Pro saddle. This one is Stamped C 65 (3rd quarter 1965). The Brooks Pro on my all original 1967 PX-10 is stamped B 67 (2nd quarter 1967). Not all Brooks Pros have a date stamp on the cantle but if one does and most of the other components are correct then it's safe to assume that the saddle is original to the bike (BITD they came on PX-10s, Raleigh Pros, Motobecane Le Champions and Team Champions).
The bike originally came with Mavic sewup rims mounted on quick release Normandy Luxe Competition large flange hubs.
Someone installed a set of CHEAP 27" steel clincher rims with CHEAP nutted axle large flange hubs. That was a common occurrence with better quality bikes that came with sewups.
Why? Several possibilities: During the bike boom FAD, most high end bikes were frequently vanity/impulse purchases (usually on a Saturday afternoon). A customer would come into a shop and say "What's the best bike you have?" "I'll take it.", regardless of whether it fit or was properly set up.
After a few short rides resulting in a sore butt (because the bike was never properly fitted and adjusted to the customer plus they were not educated about those kinds of bikes) and... flat sewups, the bike got consigned to the garage or basement. Worse yet, the owner took it into a shop and had the sewup wheels replaced.
We saw a number of less than ethical things done by some shop bikies too. Inexperienced customers brought their all Campy bikes into a shop and someone switched out their top end sewup wheels for garbage steel clinchers!!! (Karma = many flats and broken spokes)
Back to the OP's bike, some ham fisted hammer mechanic got carried away over tightening the kick stand clamp on the chain stays. Reynolds 531 is very tough and for normal use the damaged chain stays shouldn't be a problem.
Kick stands sucked!!!
I seen a gust of wind blow over rows of parked bikes balanced on kick stands.
My comments and editorial about stems: I take issue with Saint Sheldon Brown (RIP) over his AVA "Death Stem" comments. Millions of cast aluminum stems were produced from the 1940's until the 1970's using old fashion casting technologies (sand castings or lost wax molding). In my 50+ year of messing with derailleur bikes, I've never seen a cast AVA stem fail. The ones that have been reported supposedly failed at or behind the bar clamp.
I have to ask, was an oversized bar installed in the stem??? French bars were 25mm. Japanese, British - others used 1" (25.4mm bars) or larger bars.
Not trying to defend the old AVA cast aluminum stems, but the real culprits were PIVO stems, especially from the early 70's bike boom era. Almost all of the broken cast aluminum stems that I've seen were made by PIVO. They broke off around the bottom of the quill at the top of the expander slot! I had it happen to me twice while test riding customer's bikes. Fortunately I was going slow enough to come to a controlled stop both times.
During the 1970-73 bike boom there was little or no quality control among most of the French component makers. Stems that were poorly cast with lots of porosities and shrink points should have been thrown back into the melting ladle (PIVO). Instead they were finished and sold to European bicycle makers who in turn just put the bikes together and shipped them as fast as they could box them up and push them out the door!
I'm running bike boom era cast aluminum stems on a number of my classic rigs. I only take them out for special rides. I don't recommend them for hard or everyday use.
I carefully inspect these stems for any signs of cracking plus I drill a round hole at the top of the expander slot or slots to reduce the possibility of a crack forming from a stress riser.
BTW, In the mid 70's Japanese companies started producing cast aluminum stems that they euphemistically called "melt forged". They were pressure cast injection molded which eliminated most porosities and made for much safer, stronger stems. The French followed suit in the mid 70's.
French steerers are supposed to have an ID of 22.0mm. Most are slightly oversized, also the original spec for French stems was 21.9mm not 22.0mm. You need a little clearance to insert the stem.
GOOD 22.0mm stems are getting hard to find. I measured the diameters of 20+ Nitto stems marked 22.2mm. All but one measured 22.1mm diameter. They should fit most Peugeot steerers with very little modification. Take solvent and clean out the inside of the steerer. Next run a a brake cylinder hone or some sandpaper around the inside of the steerer until it's smooth and there are no burrs. During reassembly put a glop of grease in the steerer and on the quill of the stem. It eliminates stuck stems and makes height adjustment easier (same with seat tubes)..
Stronglight crank arms: NDS (left side) crank arms fail more often than DS arms. They just do, Campy, Stronglight, it doesn't matter. There have been a number of discussions as to why the left side crank arms fail so often but that's for another thread..
The original Stronglight 93 crank arms that came on this bike were forged aluminum. You have a Stronglight 104 cast aluminum NDS crank arm. The correct Mod 93 LH crank arms show up on eBay. They've been running for around $70.
This site has info on PX-10s and serial numbers: PX-10_History
verktyg
The Simplex Criterium RD is stamped 2 69. I would trust that February, 1969 date more than the 1973 date on the AVA bars.
Cheap French alloy bars from that era tended to start drooping which eventually led to catastrophic failure. It's likely they may have been replaced BITD.
Look for a date code stamped into the cantle on the underside of the Brooks Pro saddle. This one is Stamped C 65 (3rd quarter 1965). The Brooks Pro on my all original 1967 PX-10 is stamped B 67 (2nd quarter 1967). Not all Brooks Pros have a date stamp on the cantle but if one does and most of the other components are correct then it's safe to assume that the saddle is original to the bike (BITD they came on PX-10s, Raleigh Pros, Motobecane Le Champions and Team Champions).
The bike originally came with Mavic sewup rims mounted on quick release Normandy Luxe Competition large flange hubs.
Someone installed a set of CHEAP 27" steel clincher rims with CHEAP nutted axle large flange hubs. That was a common occurrence with better quality bikes that came with sewups.
Why? Several possibilities: During the bike boom FAD, most high end bikes were frequently vanity/impulse purchases (usually on a Saturday afternoon). A customer would come into a shop and say "What's the best bike you have?" "I'll take it.", regardless of whether it fit or was properly set up.
After a few short rides resulting in a sore butt (because the bike was never properly fitted and adjusted to the customer plus they were not educated about those kinds of bikes) and... flat sewups, the bike got consigned to the garage or basement. Worse yet, the owner took it into a shop and had the sewup wheels replaced.
We saw a number of less than ethical things done by some shop bikies too. Inexperienced customers brought their all Campy bikes into a shop and someone switched out their top end sewup wheels for garbage steel clinchers!!! (Karma = many flats and broken spokes)
Back to the OP's bike, some ham fisted hammer mechanic got carried away over tightening the kick stand clamp on the chain stays. Reynolds 531 is very tough and for normal use the damaged chain stays shouldn't be a problem.
Kick stands sucked!!!
I seen a gust of wind blow over rows of parked bikes balanced on kick stands.My comments and editorial about stems: I take issue with Saint Sheldon Brown (RIP) over his AVA "Death Stem" comments. Millions of cast aluminum stems were produced from the 1940's until the 1970's using old fashion casting technologies (sand castings or lost wax molding). In my 50+ year of messing with derailleur bikes, I've never seen a cast AVA stem fail. The ones that have been reported supposedly failed at or behind the bar clamp.
I have to ask, was an oversized bar installed in the stem??? French bars were 25mm. Japanese, British - others used 1" (25.4mm bars) or larger bars.
Not trying to defend the old AVA cast aluminum stems, but the real culprits were PIVO stems, especially from the early 70's bike boom era. Almost all of the broken cast aluminum stems that I've seen were made by PIVO. They broke off around the bottom of the quill at the top of the expander slot! I had it happen to me twice while test riding customer's bikes. Fortunately I was going slow enough to come to a controlled stop both times.
During the 1970-73 bike boom there was little or no quality control among most of the French component makers. Stems that were poorly cast with lots of porosities and shrink points should have been thrown back into the melting ladle (PIVO). Instead they were finished and sold to European bicycle makers who in turn just put the bikes together and shipped them as fast as they could box them up and push them out the door!
I'm running bike boom era cast aluminum stems on a number of my classic rigs. I only take them out for special rides. I don't recommend them for hard or everyday use.
I carefully inspect these stems for any signs of cracking plus I drill a round hole at the top of the expander slot or slots to reduce the possibility of a crack forming from a stress riser.
BTW, In the mid 70's Japanese companies started producing cast aluminum stems that they euphemistically called "melt forged". They were pressure cast injection molded which eliminated most porosities and made for much safer, stronger stems. The French followed suit in the mid 70's.
French steerers are supposed to have an ID of 22.0mm. Most are slightly oversized, also the original spec for French stems was 21.9mm not 22.0mm. You need a little clearance to insert the stem.
GOOD 22.0mm stems are getting hard to find. I measured the diameters of 20+ Nitto stems marked 22.2mm. All but one measured 22.1mm diameter. They should fit most Peugeot steerers with very little modification. Take solvent and clean out the inside of the steerer. Next run a a brake cylinder hone or some sandpaper around the inside of the steerer until it's smooth and there are no burrs. During reassembly put a glop of grease in the steerer and on the quill of the stem. It eliminates stuck stems and makes height adjustment easier (same with seat tubes)..
Stronglight crank arms: NDS (left side) crank arms fail more often than DS arms. They just do, Campy, Stronglight, it doesn't matter. There have been a number of discussions as to why the left side crank arms fail so often but that's for another thread..
The original Stronglight 93 crank arms that came on this bike were forged aluminum. You have a Stronglight 104 cast aluminum NDS crank arm. The correct Mod 93 LH crank arms show up on eBay. They've been running for around $70.
This site has info on PX-10s and serial numbers: PX-10_History
verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 05-13-18 at 03:24 AM.
05-13-18, 04:37 AM
#37
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Based on the Peugeot down tube decal, the frame is a 1966-70 PX-10. Almost all of those bikes where white with with black painted Nervex Pro lugs. Prior to that, PX-10s were blue with yellow lugs. I've heard tell of a few blue PX-10s from the late 60's era. Blue PX-10s were common later in the 70's but they had different decals and lugs.
Snip . . .
The Simplex Criterium RD is stamped 2 69. I would trust that February, 1969 date more than the 1973 date on the AVA bars.
Cheap French alloy bars from that era tended to start drooping which eventually led to catastrophic failure. It's likely they may have been replaced BITD.
Look for a date code stamped into the cantle on the underside of the Brooks Pro saddle. This one is Stamped C 65 (3rd quarter 1965). The Brooks Pro on my all original 1967 PX-10 is stamped B 67 (2nd quarter 1967). Not all Brooks Pros have a date stamp on the cantle but if one does and most of the other components are correct then it's safe to assume that the saddle is original to the bike (BITD they came on PX-10s, Raleigh Pros, Motobecane Le Champions and Team Champions).
The bike originally came with Mavic sewup rims mounted on quick release Normandy Luxe Competition large flange hubs.
Someone installed a set of CHEAP 27" steel clincher rims with CHEAP nutted axle large flange hubs. That was a common occurrence with better quality bikes that came with sewups.
Why? Several possibilities: During the bike boom FAD, most high end bikes were frequently vanity/impulse purchases (usually on a Saturday afternoon). A customer would come into a shop and say "What's the best bike you have?" "I'll take it.", regardless of whether it fit or was properly set up.
After a few short rides resulting in a sore butt (because the bike was never properly fitted and adjusted to the customer plus they were not educated about those kinds of bikes) and... flat sewups, the bike got consigned to the garage or basement. Worse yet, the owner took it into a shop and had the sewup wheels replaced.
We saw a number of less than ethical things done by some shop bikies too. Inexperienced customers brought their all Campy bikes into a shop and someone switched out their top end sewup wheels for garbage steel clinchers!!! (Karma = many flats and broken spokes)
Back to the OP's bike, some ham fisted hammer mechanic got carried away over tightening the kick stand clamp on the chain stays. Reynolds 531 is very tough and for normal use the damaged chain stays shouldn't be a problem.
Kick stands sucked!!! I seen a gust of wind blow over rows of parked bikes balanced on kick stands.
My comments and editorial about stems: I take issue with Saint Sheldon Brown (RIP) over his AVA "Death Stem" comments. Millions of cast aluminum stems were produced from the 1940's until the 1970's using old fashion casting technologies (sand castings or lost wax molding). In my 50+ year of messing with derailleur bikes, I've never seen a cast AVA stem fail. The ones that have been reported supposedly failed at or behind the bar clamp.
snip . . .
I have to ask, was an oversized bar installed in the stem??? French bars were 25mm. Japanese, British - others used 1" (25.4mm bars) or larger bars.
Not trying to defend the old AVA cast aluminum stems, but the real culprits were PIVO stems, especially from the early 70's bike boom era. Almost all of the broken cast aluminum stems that I've seen were made by PIVO. They broke off around the bottom of the quill at the top of the expander slot! I had it happen to me twice while test riding customer's bikes. Fortunately I was going slow enough to come to a controlled stop both times.
During the 1970-73 bike boom there was little or no quality control among most of the French component makers. Stems that were poorly cast with lots of porosities and shrink points should have been thrown back into the melting ladle (PIVO). Instead they were finished and sold to European bicycle makers who in turn just put the bikes together and shipped them as fast as they could box them up and push them out the door!
I'm running bike boom era cast aluminum stems on a number of my classic rigs. I only take them out for special rides. I don't recommend them for hard or everyday use.
I carefully inspect these stems for any signs of cracking plus I drill a round hole at the top of the expander slot or slots to reduce the possibility of a crack forming from a stress riser.
snip . . .
BTW, In the mid 70's Japanese companies started producing cast aluminum stems that they euphemistically called "melt forged". They were pressure cast injection molded which eliminated most porosities and made for much safer, stronger stems. The French followed suit in the mid 70's.
French steerers are supposed to have an ID of 22.0mm. Most are slightly oversized, also the original spec for French stems was 21.9mm not 22.0mm. You need a little clearance to insert the stem.
GOOD 22.0mm stems are getting hard to find. I measured the diameters of 20+ Nitto stems marked 22.2mm. All but one measured 22.1mm diameter. They should fit most Peugeot steerers with very little modification. Take solvent and clean out the inside of the steerer. Next run a a brake cylinder hone or some sandpaper around the inside of the steerer until it's smooth and there are no burrs. During reassembly put a glop of grease in the steerer and on the quill of the stem. It eliminates stuck stems and makes height adjustment easier (same with seat tubes)..
Stronglight crank arms: NDS (left side) crank arms fail more often than DS arms. They just do, Campy, Stronglight, it doesn't matter. There have been a number of discussions as to why the left side crank arms fail so often but that's for another thread..
The original Stronglight 93 crank arms that came on this bike were forged aluminum. You have a Stronglight 104 cast aluminum NDS crank arm. The correct Mod 93 LH crank arms show up on eBay. They've been running for around $70.
This site has info on PX-10s and serial numbers: PX-10_History
verktyg
Snip . . .
The Simplex Criterium RD is stamped 2 69. I would trust that February, 1969 date more than the 1973 date on the AVA bars.
Cheap French alloy bars from that era tended to start drooping which eventually led to catastrophic failure. It's likely they may have been replaced BITD.
Look for a date code stamped into the cantle on the underside of the Brooks Pro saddle. This one is Stamped C 65 (3rd quarter 1965). The Brooks Pro on my all original 1967 PX-10 is stamped B 67 (2nd quarter 1967). Not all Brooks Pros have a date stamp on the cantle but if one does and most of the other components are correct then it's safe to assume that the saddle is original to the bike (BITD they came on PX-10s, Raleigh Pros, Motobecane Le Champions and Team Champions).
The bike originally came with Mavic sewup rims mounted on quick release Normandy Luxe Competition large flange hubs.
Someone installed a set of CHEAP 27" steel clincher rims with CHEAP nutted axle large flange hubs. That was a common occurrence with better quality bikes that came with sewups.
Why? Several possibilities: During the bike boom FAD, most high end bikes were frequently vanity/impulse purchases (usually on a Saturday afternoon). A customer would come into a shop and say "What's the best bike you have?" "I'll take it.", regardless of whether it fit or was properly set up.
After a few short rides resulting in a sore butt (because the bike was never properly fitted and adjusted to the customer plus they were not educated about those kinds of bikes) and... flat sewups, the bike got consigned to the garage or basement. Worse yet, the owner took it into a shop and had the sewup wheels replaced.
We saw a number of less than ethical things done by some shop bikies too. Inexperienced customers brought their all Campy bikes into a shop and someone switched out their top end sewup wheels for garbage steel clinchers!!! (Karma = many flats and broken spokes)
Back to the OP's bike, some ham fisted hammer mechanic got carried away over tightening the kick stand clamp on the chain stays. Reynolds 531 is very tough and for normal use the damaged chain stays shouldn't be a problem.
Kick stands sucked!!!
I seen a gust of wind blow over rows of parked bikes balanced on kick stands.My comments and editorial about stems: I take issue with Saint Sheldon Brown (RIP) over his AVA "Death Stem" comments. Millions of cast aluminum stems were produced from the 1940's until the 1970's using old fashion casting technologies (sand castings or lost wax molding). In my 50+ year of messing with derailleur bikes, I've never seen a cast AVA stem fail. The ones that have been reported supposedly failed at or behind the bar clamp.
snip . . .
I have to ask, was an oversized bar installed in the stem??? French bars were 25mm. Japanese, British - others used 1" (25.4mm bars) or larger bars.
Not trying to defend the old AVA cast aluminum stems, but the real culprits were PIVO stems, especially from the early 70's bike boom era. Almost all of the broken cast aluminum stems that I've seen were made by PIVO. They broke off around the bottom of the quill at the top of the expander slot! I had it happen to me twice while test riding customer's bikes. Fortunately I was going slow enough to come to a controlled stop both times.
During the 1970-73 bike boom there was little or no quality control among most of the French component makers. Stems that were poorly cast with lots of porosities and shrink points should have been thrown back into the melting ladle (PIVO). Instead they were finished and sold to European bicycle makers who in turn just put the bikes together and shipped them as fast as they could box them up and push them out the door!
I'm running bike boom era cast aluminum stems on a number of my classic rigs. I only take them out for special rides. I don't recommend them for hard or everyday use.
I carefully inspect these stems for any signs of cracking plus I drill a round hole at the top of the expander slot or slots to reduce the possibility of a crack forming from a stress riser.
snip . . .
BTW, In the mid 70's Japanese companies started producing cast aluminum stems that they euphemistically called "melt forged". They were pressure cast injection molded which eliminated most porosities and made for much safer, stronger stems. The French followed suit in the mid 70's.
French steerers are supposed to have an ID of 22.0mm. Most are slightly oversized, also the original spec for French stems was 21.9mm not 22.0mm. You need a little clearance to insert the stem.
GOOD 22.0mm stems are getting hard to find. I measured the diameters of 20+ Nitto stems marked 22.2mm. All but one measured 22.1mm diameter. They should fit most Peugeot steerers with very little modification. Take solvent and clean out the inside of the steerer. Next run a a brake cylinder hone or some sandpaper around the inside of the steerer until it's smooth and there are no burrs. During reassembly put a glop of grease in the steerer and on the quill of the stem. It eliminates stuck stems and makes height adjustment easier (same with seat tubes)..
Stronglight crank arms: NDS (left side) crank arms fail more often than DS arms. They just do, Campy, Stronglight, it doesn't matter. There have been a number of discussions as to why the left side crank arms fail so often but that's for another thread..
The original Stronglight 93 crank arms that came on this bike were forged aluminum. You have a Stronglight 104 cast aluminum NDS crank arm. The correct Mod 93 LH crank arms show up on eBay. They've been running for around $70.
This site has info on PX-10s and serial numbers: PX-10_History
verktyg
Last edited by bikemig; 05-13-18 at 04:43 AM.
05-13-18, 06:01 AM
#38
Senior Member
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AVA date code is located at the end of bars by the plugs. I don't recall if its the left or right.
'E' means different than or higher specification depending on the model. The question is different than what?
Example: PX10LE P=Peugeot, X=inoxydable tubing, 10=racing series, LE=High Luxury
'E' means different than or higher specification depending on the model. The question is different than what?
Example: PX10LE P=Peugeot, X=inoxydable tubing, 10=racing series, LE=High Luxury
05-13-18, 08:07 AM
#39
verktyg
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AVA date code is located at the end of bars by the plugs. I don't recall if its the left or right.
'E' means different than or higher specification depending on the model. The question is different than what?
Example: PX10LE P=Peugeot, X=inoxydable tubing, 10=racing series, LE=High Luxury
'E' means different than or higher specification depending on the model. The question is different than what?
Example: PX10LE P=Peugeot, X=inoxydable tubing, 10=racing series, LE=High Luxury
The only difference that I can see in the 1974 US Peugeot catalog is the PX-10E came with an AVA "death stem" and AVA bars plus Ideale 90 (or Brooks B17) saddle.
The PX-10LE was supplied with a forged Philippe stem and Philippe bars plus an Ideale 2001 saddle.
https://www.bikeboompeugeot.com/Broch...0Page%2017.jpg
Of all of the European production bike manufacturers, Peugeot kept closest to their advertised specs during the 60's and 70's. That and the bike boom had come to a screeching halt in 1974 so those specs should be good.
Drooping French bars. I wouldn't ride bars this far gone.
verktyg
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Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 05-13-18 at 08:11 AM.
05-13-18, 08:15 AM
#40
The Huffmeister
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Based on the Peugeot down tube decal, the frame is a 1966-70 PX-10. Almost all of those bikes where white with with black painted Nervex Pro lugs. Prior to that, PX-10s were blue with yellow lugs. I've heard tell of a few blue PX-10s from the late 60's era. Blue PX-10s were common later in the 70's but they had different decals and lugs.
The Simplex Criterium RD is stamped 2 69. I would trust that February, 1969 date more than the 1973 date on the AVA bars.
Cheap French alloy bars from that era tended to start drooping which eventually led to catastrophic failure. It's likely they may have been replaced BITD.
Look for a date code stamped into the cantle on the underside of the Brooks Pro saddle. This one is Stamped C 65 (3rd quarter 1965). The Brooks Pro on my all original 1967 PX-10 is stamped B 67 (2nd quarter 1967). Not all Brooks Pros have a date stamp on the cantle but if one does and most of the other components are correct then it's safe to assume that the saddle is original to the bike (BITD they came on PX-10s, Raleigh Pros, Motobecane Le Champions and Team Champions).
The bike originally came with Mavic sewup rims mounted on quick release Normandy Luxe Competition large flange hubs.
Someone installed a set of CHEAP 27" steel clincher rims with CHEAP nutted axle large flange hubs. That was a common occurrence with better quality bikes that came with sewups.
Why? Several possibilities: During the bike boom FAD, most high end bikes were frequently vanity/impulse purchases (usually on a Saturday afternoon). A customer would come into a shop and say "What's the best bike you have?" "I'll take it.", regardless of whether it fit or was properly set up.
After a few short rides resulting in a sore butt (because the bike was never properly fitted and adjusted to the customer plus they were not educated about those kinds of bikes) and... flat sewups, the bike got consigned to the garage or basement. Worse yet, the owner took it into a shop and had the sewup wheels replaced.
We saw a number of less than ethical things done by some shop bikies too. Inexperienced customers brought their all Campy bikes into a shop and someone switched out their top end sewup wheels for garbage steel clinchers!!! (Karma = many flats and broken spokes)
Back to the OP's bike, some ham fisted hammer mechanic got carried away over tightening the kick stand clamp on the chain stays. Reynolds 531 is very tough and for normal use the damaged chain stays shouldn't be a problem.
Kick stands sucked!!! I seen a gust of wind blow over rows of parked bikes balanced on kick stands.
My comments and editorial about stems: I take issue with Saint Sheldon Brown (RIP) over his AVA "Death Stem" comments. Millions of cast aluminum stems were produced from the 1940's until the 1970's using old fashion casting technologies (sand castings or lost wax molding). In my 50+ year of messing with derailleur bikes, I've never seen a cast AVA stem fail. The ones that have been reported supposedly failed at or behind the bar clamp.
I have to ask, was an oversized bar installed in the stem??? French bars were 25mm. Japanese, British - others used 1" (25.4mm bars) or larger bars.
Not trying to defend the old AVA cast aluminum stems, but the real culprits were PIVO stems, especially from the early 70's bike boom era. Almost all of the broken cast aluminum stems that I've seen were made by PIVO. They broke off around the bottom of the quill at the top of the expander slot! I had it happen to me twice while test riding customer's bikes. Fortunately I was going slow enough to come to a controlled stop both times.
During the 1970-73 bike boom there was little or no quality control among most of the French component makers. Stems that were poorly cast with lots of porosities and shrink points should have been thrown back into the melting ladle (PIVO). Instead they were finished and sold to European bicycle makers who in turn just put the bikes together and shipped them as fast as they could box them up and push them out the door!
I'm running bike boom era cast aluminum stems on a number of my classic rigs. I only take them out for special rides. I don't recommend them for hard or everyday use.
I carefully inspect these stems for any signs of cracking plus I drill a round hole at the top of the expander slot or slots to reduce the possibility of a crack forming from a stress riser.
BTW, In the mid 70's Japanese companies started producing cast aluminum stems that they euphemistically called "melt forged". They were pressure cast injection molded which eliminated most porosities and made for much safer, stronger stems. The French followed suit in the mid 70's.
French steerers are supposed to have an ID of 22.0mm. Most are slightly oversized, also the original spec for French stems was 21.9mm not 22.0mm. You need a little clearance to insert the stem.
GOOD 22.0mm stems are getting hard to find. I measured the diameters of 20+ Nitto stems marked 22.2mm. All but one measured 22.1mm diameter. They should fit most Peugeot steerers with very little modification. Take solvent and clean out the inside of the steerer. Next run a a brake cylinder hone or some sandpaper around the inside of the steerer until it's smooth and there are no burrs. During reassembly put a glop of grease in the steerer and on the quill of the stem. It eliminates stuck stems and makes height adjustment easier (same with seat tubes)..
Stronglight crank arms: NDS (left side) crank arms fail more often than DS arms. They just do, Campy, Stronglight, it doesn't matter. There have been a number of discussions as to why the left side crank arms fail so often but that's for another thread..
The original Stronglight 93 crank arms that came on this bike were forged aluminum. You have a Stronglight 104 cast aluminum NDS crank arm. The correct Mod 93 LH crank arms show up on eBay. They've been running for around $70.
This site has info on PX-10s and serial numbers: PX-10_History
verktyg
The Simplex Criterium RD is stamped 2 69. I would trust that February, 1969 date more than the 1973 date on the AVA bars.
Cheap French alloy bars from that era tended to start drooping which eventually led to catastrophic failure. It's likely they may have been replaced BITD.
Look for a date code stamped into the cantle on the underside of the Brooks Pro saddle. This one is Stamped C 65 (3rd quarter 1965). The Brooks Pro on my all original 1967 PX-10 is stamped B 67 (2nd quarter 1967). Not all Brooks Pros have a date stamp on the cantle but if one does and most of the other components are correct then it's safe to assume that the saddle is original to the bike (BITD they came on PX-10s, Raleigh Pros, Motobecane Le Champions and Team Champions).
The bike originally came with Mavic sewup rims mounted on quick release Normandy Luxe Competition large flange hubs.
Someone installed a set of CHEAP 27" steel clincher rims with CHEAP nutted axle large flange hubs. That was a common occurrence with better quality bikes that came with sewups.
Why? Several possibilities: During the bike boom FAD, most high end bikes were frequently vanity/impulse purchases (usually on a Saturday afternoon). A customer would come into a shop and say "What's the best bike you have?" "I'll take it.", regardless of whether it fit or was properly set up.
After a few short rides resulting in a sore butt (because the bike was never properly fitted and adjusted to the customer plus they were not educated about those kinds of bikes) and... flat sewups, the bike got consigned to the garage or basement. Worse yet, the owner took it into a shop and had the sewup wheels replaced.
We saw a number of less than ethical things done by some shop bikies too. Inexperienced customers brought their all Campy bikes into a shop and someone switched out their top end sewup wheels for garbage steel clinchers!!! (Karma = many flats and broken spokes)
Back to the OP's bike, some ham fisted hammer mechanic got carried away over tightening the kick stand clamp on the chain stays. Reynolds 531 is very tough and for normal use the damaged chain stays shouldn't be a problem.
Kick stands sucked!!!
I seen a gust of wind blow over rows of parked bikes balanced on kick stands.My comments and editorial about stems: I take issue with Saint Sheldon Brown (RIP) over his AVA "Death Stem" comments. Millions of cast aluminum stems were produced from the 1940's until the 1970's using old fashion casting technologies (sand castings or lost wax molding). In my 50+ year of messing with derailleur bikes, I've never seen a cast AVA stem fail. The ones that have been reported supposedly failed at or behind the bar clamp.
I have to ask, was an oversized bar installed in the stem??? French bars were 25mm. Japanese, British - others used 1" (25.4mm bars) or larger bars.
Not trying to defend the old AVA cast aluminum stems, but the real culprits were PIVO stems, especially from the early 70's bike boom era. Almost all of the broken cast aluminum stems that I've seen were made by PIVO. They broke off around the bottom of the quill at the top of the expander slot! I had it happen to me twice while test riding customer's bikes. Fortunately I was going slow enough to come to a controlled stop both times.
During the 1970-73 bike boom there was little or no quality control among most of the French component makers. Stems that were poorly cast with lots of porosities and shrink points should have been thrown back into the melting ladle (PIVO). Instead they were finished and sold to European bicycle makers who in turn just put the bikes together and shipped them as fast as they could box them up and push them out the door!
I'm running bike boom era cast aluminum stems on a number of my classic rigs. I only take them out for special rides. I don't recommend them for hard or everyday use.
I carefully inspect these stems for any signs of cracking plus I drill a round hole at the top of the expander slot or slots to reduce the possibility of a crack forming from a stress riser.
BTW, In the mid 70's Japanese companies started producing cast aluminum stems that they euphemistically called "melt forged". They were pressure cast injection molded which eliminated most porosities and made for much safer, stronger stems. The French followed suit in the mid 70's.
French steerers are supposed to have an ID of 22.0mm. Most are slightly oversized, also the original spec for French stems was 21.9mm not 22.0mm. You need a little clearance to insert the stem.
GOOD 22.0mm stems are getting hard to find. I measured the diameters of 20+ Nitto stems marked 22.2mm. All but one measured 22.1mm diameter. They should fit most Peugeot steerers with very little modification. Take solvent and clean out the inside of the steerer. Next run a a brake cylinder hone or some sandpaper around the inside of the steerer until it's smooth and there are no burrs. During reassembly put a glop of grease in the steerer and on the quill of the stem. It eliminates stuck stems and makes height adjustment easier (same with seat tubes)..
Stronglight crank arms: NDS (left side) crank arms fail more often than DS arms. They just do, Campy, Stronglight, it doesn't matter. There have been a number of discussions as to why the left side crank arms fail so often but that's for another thread..
The original Stronglight 93 crank arms that came on this bike were forged aluminum. You have a Stronglight 104 cast aluminum NDS crank arm. The correct Mod 93 LH crank arms show up on eBay. They've been running for around $70.
This site has info on PX-10s and serial numbers: PX-10_History
verktyg
Verktyg,
Thank you for taking all the time writing that post to educate and inform! I did pull the AVA out and it looked good. I'm not worried about it, but I think I might try a shorter stem to take up some top tube length.
I'm learning so much, and it is only because folks like you and others are willing to share so much. It's really interesting to hear the possible reasons why the bike may have ended up like it did. I love learning about the context of such things, so they greatly interest me.
The bike has had a hard life - used hard then put away wet, for a long time. I'd love to get her all cleaned up, repaired up, and back on the road where she belongs.
05-13-18, 08:17 AM
#41
The Huffmeister
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AVA date code is located at the end of bars by the plugs. I don't recall if its the left or right.
'E' means different than or higher specification depending on the model. The question is different than what?
Example: PX10LE P=Peugeot, X=inoxydable tubing, 10=racing series, LE=High Luxury
'E' means different than or higher specification depending on the model. The question is different than what?
Example: PX10LE P=Peugeot, X=inoxydable tubing, 10=racing series, LE=High Luxury
Regarding that 'E' or 'LE', does anyone have a consensus on what the 'High Luxury' meant? How was a high luxury model different from a non-High Luxury model? And clues?
05-13-18, 09:27 AM
#42
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At one point I thought that the letters in the model numbers indicated sewups or clinchers but the 1974 US Peugeot catalog lists a UX-10 as a PX-10 with clinchers??
The PX-10LE was supplied with a forged Philippe stem and Philippe bars plus an Ideale 2001 saddle.
https://www.bikeboompeugeot.com/Broch...0Page%2017.jpg
verktyg
The PX-10LE was supplied with a forged Philippe stem and Philippe bars plus an Ideale 2001 saddle.
https://www.bikeboompeugeot.com/Broch...0Page%2017.jpg
verktyg
05-13-18, 09:29 AM
#43
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Oooh, thanks for this! I will check. Would be cool if the date for all the components were within a few months of each other!
Regarding that 'E' or 'LE', does anyone have a consensus on what the 'High Luxury' meant? How was a high luxury model different from a non-High Luxury model? And clues?
Regarding that 'E' or 'LE', does anyone have a consensus on what the 'High Luxury' meant? How was a high luxury model different from a non-High Luxury model? And clues?
05-13-18, 04:29 PM
#44
Mike J
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Oooh, thanks for this! I will check. Would be cool if the date for all the components were within a few months of each other!
Regarding that 'E' or 'LE', does anyone have a consensus on what the 'High Luxury' meant? How was a high luxury model different from a non-High Luxury model? And clues?
Regarding that 'E' or 'LE', does anyone have a consensus on what the 'High Luxury' meant? How was a high luxury model different from a non-High Luxury model? And clues?
https://www.bikeboompeugeot.com/Broch...0Page%2017.jpg
https://www.bikeboompeugeot.com/Broch...0Page%2018.jpg
For 1969 all the catalogs for USA, Canada, France, Germany, and UK all listed the sole model as PX-10E.
05-17-18, 12:45 AM
#45
The Huffmeister
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Had some time in the afternoon and evening to start working on the PX10...
Yes, that is the living room. Yes, I'm married. And yes, she's a keeper!
Got it pretty torn down, other than the cranks, since I don't have a Stronglight-specific crank removal tool. We'll get to that later.
What I had to work with was a bit rough...
But she started to clean up well!
After several hours, here is where I am at -
I touched up the nervex lugs with black paint, and will try to match the blue with something and do some touchup there as well.
Some interesting thoughts about the tear down - for how nice this frame is, I was honestly shocked at some of the level of components that came on this bike. Most of it was absolute JUNK. The cheap, plastic simplex shifters (broken), the cheap pressed steel shifter which dug into the downtube paint, the pressed steel cable guide, the sucky drooping handlebars, the super heavy steel seatpost, the death stem, etc. Big, cumbersome and heavy steel bolts everywhere. So much of it is just garbage. Don't get me wrong, I do have the vintage fever, but I don't know how some of ya'll do it, and keep to the original specs, when they are this bad
One thing that pleasantly impressed me was the headset. I appreciated the V-groove that the bearings ran in, instead of the junky single-surface bearing interface that most caged bearing headsets are. With it being indexed, it technically has a disadvantage in adjustment, but makes up for it in how the system 'locks' the headset to your setting, so it won't loosen up all the time. Somehow I couldn't find another washer that went on before the top nut, as it was bottoming out on the steerer threads before tightening down, so I'll have to dig around in the parts bin for one.
Still undecided on how I am going to set this one up. I might just try to do an upright single speed cruiser until something else strikes my fancy. That gets me around the longer top tube issue. Can't wait to start riding this one!
Yes, that is the living room. Yes, I'm married. And yes, she's a keeper!
Got it pretty torn down, other than the cranks, since I don't have a Stronglight-specific crank removal tool. We'll get to that later.
What I had to work with was a bit rough...
But she started to clean up well!
After several hours, here is where I am at -
I touched up the nervex lugs with black paint, and will try to match the blue with something and do some touchup there as well.
Some interesting thoughts about the tear down - for how nice this frame is, I was honestly shocked at some of the level of components that came on this bike. Most of it was absolute JUNK. The cheap, plastic simplex shifters (broken), the cheap pressed steel shifter which dug into the downtube paint, the pressed steel cable guide, the sucky drooping handlebars, the super heavy steel seatpost, the death stem, etc. Big, cumbersome and heavy steel bolts everywhere. So much of it is just garbage. Don't get me wrong, I do have the vintage fever, but I don't know how some of ya'll do it, and keep to the original specs, when they are this bad
One thing that pleasantly impressed me was the headset. I appreciated the V-groove that the bearings ran in, instead of the junky single-surface bearing interface that most caged bearing headsets are. With it being indexed, it technically has a disadvantage in adjustment, but makes up for it in how the system 'locks' the headset to your setting, so it won't loosen up all the time. Somehow I couldn't find another washer that went on before the top nut, as it was bottoming out on the steerer threads before tightening down, so I'll have to dig around in the parts bin for one.
Still undecided on how I am going to set this one up. I might just try to do an upright single speed cruiser until something else strikes my fancy. That gets me around the longer top tube issue. Can't wait to start riding this one!
Last edited by AdventureManCO; 05-17-18 at 12:49 AM.
05-17-18, 03:43 AM
#46
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I had a UO8 and loved it. It's been years, wish I kept it. I looked high and low for a PX-10 that was priced less than a bar of gold but never found one.Great find enjoy it!:
05-27-18, 08:37 PM
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Sell the non-original left crank arm?
Any interest in letting the Peugeot crank go for cheap? I'm putting together a PSV10 for my wife's birthday and the left side taper is unuseable.
05-31-18, 04:23 PM
#48
The Huffmeister
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Shoot, if I replace the cranks you can have it. Only thing is, I don't have a puller to get the cranks off. I wonder if any of the local co-op shops might have the right puller.
05-31-18, 07:16 PM
#50
feros ferio
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A 1969 PX-10, and in blue, yet! Major score.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069