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Do you buy vintage tires?

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Old 05-13-18 | 07:15 AM
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Do you buy vintage tires?

So here's my story...
A few years ago I was cruising a bike shop and found a half dozen Schwinn Passage 27x1-1/4 kevlar bead folding tires. Cool, I thought, I will throw them on the shelf for the right bike. I think I paid $5 each, NOS.
Well a few months ago I had the chance to put a couple of these bad boys to work. I mounted them up on the rims and they were HARD to get on, I actually had to use my tire levers to "tire jack" them on. Well as fortunes go, I got a flat. So I cranked one side of the tire off, fixed the flat, cranked it back on... and the tire had unwrapped from the kevlar bead in one spot, allowing a tire bulge. Pooey.
So I replaced it with another NOS tire. This entire cycle repeated. Double pooey.
So then I ordered some Panaracers. They went on the rims with no issues, and are actually 1-1/4" wide, not 7/8" like the NOS tires.

So with that, the question is: did I waste money buying NOS tires, or were they just kinda crappy and undependable in the first place? Because I still have three or four I have to figure out what I want to do with. I don't know if I would have the courage to mount on a bike that I would sell, but I know I don't want them back on anything I would ride. Actually, that tells me I wouldn't want to sell them to an unsuspecting person either.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-13-18 | 07:25 AM
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I'd say you got what you paid for.

If I really like a tire, I'll buy them new on sale and hoard them in MY storage area, away from heat, cold and UV. Did that with Vittoria Rubino Pro III's, which are still comsidered a tire with fairly low rolling resistance.

Properly stored high quality tires will be fine for a couple of years, but not more. Plus, tire technology keeps getting better and better & I'd rather take advantage of a nicer ride than save a few bucks.
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Old 05-13-18 | 08:11 AM
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I'd rather ride on new tires that emulate the old style than actually ride on old tires.
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Old 05-13-18 | 09:54 AM
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Tires have a finite shelf life. Just about any of them will be great for 2-3 years, then depending on storage conditions, you will start to notice the rubber getting harder, and/or the sidewalls will start to degrade. If stored in reasonable conditions (no high heat or ozone), you probably won't notice any issues for 5-10 years. In the OP's case, those tires are probably 30-35 years old. (Schwinn offered the Passage tires in 1985 and 86 for sure. I'd be really surprised if they were made into the 90's) For tires that old, I would consider them to be questionable at best. You hear of folks using tires that old and older without issue, but you also hear a lot of stories of sudden blowouts from failed sidewalls in old tires too. Worse, they're skinwall tires, so I would be very concerned about the condition of the sidewalls. At least with blackwall tires, the synthetic rubber they use doesn't dry out to the same extent as the natural latex in skinwalls.
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Old 05-13-18 | 11:49 AM
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I have ridden on 60 year old tires, which were original to the bike, without any problems. They didn't show any signs of cracking. I also have a bike with tires from the '70s, which were on it when I got it, that are holding up. Amazing, but true. I would still recommend buying new tires. There are some decent deals online.
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Old 05-13-18 | 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill
I'd rather ride on new tires that emulate the old style than actually ride on old tires.
+1. If I had a time machine, there are a few tires from the past I wouldn't mind trying, but we actually live in pretty good times for fast and dependable C&V styled tires.
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Old 05-13-18 | 12:45 PM
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Old 05-13-18 | 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mobilemail
So with that, the question is: did I waste money buying NOS tires, or were they just kinda crappy and undependable in the first place? Because I still have three or four I have to figure out what I want to do with. I don't know if I would have the courage to mount on a bike that I would sell, but I know I don't want them back on anything I would ride. Actually, that tells me I wouldn't want to sell them to an unsuspecting person either.

Thoughts?
NOS tires are a waste of time unless for a museum piece kept under glass and never ridden. Tires deteriorate with age. What's more, unless you're talking about hand-made tires (the best tubulars, some rare 650Bs) none are as good as the best of what you can buy new now.
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Old 05-13-18 | 01:35 PM
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I once thought I found a steal on tan gumwall Specialized Turbo's.
They looked great. They looked fast.
There were kinkier than Stormy Daniels.
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Old 05-13-18 | 01:56 PM
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Have perfectly good pair of 1950s ish Goodyear all-weather nylons for one of my 26" Rollfasts that are supple...

And of course I've had to hack off old neglected tires of the same age to put new ones on...

Sometimes you buy vintage tires for show as they are what it would have been equipped with when new, about like any other hobbyist does.

It depends on what you are going to do. There are replica tires, I'm hearing that Goodyear is getting back into bike tires maybe?
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Old 05-13-18 | 02:05 PM
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Buying vintage tires is like buying vintage gasoline for a classic car, or vintage motor oil. Consumables are just that, consumable. Now for a wall hanger, sure!
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Old 05-13-18 | 07:36 PM
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Bikes: You mean this week?

Yeah yeah ok, $30 down the tubes. I suppose I've made worse mistakes. I think I was drawn in because they were 27", and finding a high quality, folding 27" tire is like finding gold. But I agree, the new Panasonics are much better.

I think I will leave them on the shelf until someone wants to build a period correct display bike. Can't imagine having a bike I wouldn't ride, but whatever.
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Old 05-13-18 | 07:42 PM
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I remember about 15 years ago going into REI, I think and they were showing me their new Kevlar bead tires... I and I kept thinking that was silly. What I really wanted was a kevlar belted tire. I asked for it, but nary a single one.
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Old 05-13-18 | 09:14 PM
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I have a collection of old tires down in the basement. Yeah- some Schwinn Passages... Some National Dual 28s... Some lucky person can have them.

I was going to send a set to someone, but I couldn't get them wrapped up.

When I got my Stumpjumper, it came with a set of Ground Control tires. I rode those tires 6 months or so- they looked dried out, but I thought they were fine. Until the sidewall just decided to split open. Suddenly I had a big "thumb" of the inner tube sticking out the side of the tire.

I would never buy old 10-20-30-40 year old tires.
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Old 05-14-18 | 12:29 AM
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I've actually extracted many road miles from old tires, some did better than others.

A common problem is a hardened tread that wears extremely fast.

Another problem is that the outer ply, where it overlaps under the tread, pulls free from it's adhesion, giving the tread an "S" shape since the fibers of the outer ply are running at an angle to the tire and to the fibers in the inner ply.
This problem is greatly reduced by use of lower pressure, which at my weight I can pull off without risk of pinch-flatting.
Outer-ply failure rarely results in blow-out at modest pressures, but the tire may contact a fork leg.

If stored properly since new, in a plastic bag, the sidewalls can still have a rubbery surface feel 30 years later, and the tread may give a decent mileage.
But weathered tires are a time-bomb.

I have not had a vintage tire fail at the bead, but I install by hand only and am careful about pulling the bead over of the edge of the rim. I've seen tires get their bead stripped of the rubber (and of the cloth chafer strip if present) by rough installation on a tight rim, which leaves the casing threads exposed to the rim and to the elements.

I installed a vintage Touring Turbo 28mm tire the other day on an Open Pro rim with 15mm inside width. At 100psi the next day it measured all of 24mm wide.
25mm tires from that era measured more like 20-21mm wide. When the 23mm size came around most tires were suddenly within a mm of spec on typical rims.
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Old 05-14-18 | 01:16 PM
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Your humidity probably makes all the difference. It's dry here so tires don't last long.
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Old 05-14-18 | 01:34 PM
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Wouldn't buy them, or ride free ones more than for a neighborhood test now, but if I was a starving college student again...I would absolutely be commuting in our NW Winters on a good looking vintage set, and would probably get away with it. Don
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Old 05-14-18 | 07:40 PM
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Bikes: You mean this week?

To be honest, these things were so hard to get on the rim that I can't remove myself from all blame. I haven't had tires that were that hard to mount since...well...the 80's....
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Old 05-14-18 | 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Oneder
Your humidity probably makes all the difference. It's dry here so tires don't last long.
I wasn't sure that you were replying to my post, because it's very dry where I live.

But humidity does nothing good for a tire, the "drying out" of a tire's various polymers has nothing to do with H2O and everything to do with ambient levels of smog molecules like ozone which causes visible cracks in tread and the disappearance of sidewall rubber.
We've got some of the highest summertime smog levels here, and an inner tube left exposed can develop catastrophic cracks in just a couple of short months.

H2O can permeate various solid and elastomeric polymers up to surprisingly high percentages (something I learned studying polymers and composites in school), but isn't much responsible for the supple feel of fresh rubber tread or the sidewall rubber coating, or for the appearance or absence of cracks in aged rubber.
Humidity does tend to alter polymer's friction characteristics, as with brake pads becoming squeaky in humid weather, much like my truck's composite clutch plate and brake pads become grabby after sitting overnight in damp conditions.
Tires stored in a plastic bag here show no cracking even after 30 years I've found, as I've actually put a few 80's tires into service in the last couple of years.

Last edited by dddd; 05-14-18 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 05-14-18 | 08:37 PM
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mine not so kinky

Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
I once thought I found a steal on tan gumwall Specialized Turbo's.
They looked great. They looked fast.
There were kinkier than Stormy Daniels.
Haha we had this conversation before RT. I don't know how old these tires were/are , but when I got them they still had mold release on them and were as fresh as the day they popped out . I think I got them for $5.00 ea . and they are slicks .

DSCF2174 by mark westi, on Flickr

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Old 05-14-18 | 09:01 PM
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While not super vintage I'm riding my daily on some $1 thrift store tires about 15 year old Bontrager hardshell 32s super nice double tough tires. So yes I will ride vintage tires if there good and in good shape but most oem 60's 70's 80's and 90's were semi junk even when new. As for buying I probably wouldn't go higher than $5-10 a pair if there really nice. As for the OP's tires the Schwinn passage tires kinda sucked when new so a lot were sold at discount NOS, bad tires don't get better with age.

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Old 05-15-18 | 05:31 AM
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So does this mean I should stop paying a premium for the vintage air I’ve been using to fill the tires on my C&V bikes?
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Old 05-15-18 | 06:03 AM
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Back to the original question that launched the thread:

No.

I do not buy vintage brake pads, either, for some of the same reasons.
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