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Old 07-09-18 | 08:08 AM
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Downtube shifters

So this is my first road bike and it has shifters on the down tube. It is a 1987 cannondale and It has indexing clicking on the right and the left is just smooth for two rings. I can’t seem to get it quite right but a few gears without it grinding while riding. What am I doing wrong? I have the left set to the small gear and when I switch between the clicks on the right they grind while riding. I don’t believe it’s a derailer issue because I just got the bike from a bike shop that took it apart and redid stuff before they sold it.
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Old 07-09-18 | 08:17 AM
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Sounds like it rubs up front when switching the back? Yes, you may need to trim the front over a tad when changing from high to low and the vice verse, that's normal. Imo
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Old 07-09-18 | 09:07 AM
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Ride the bike and shift to a gear that presents the grinding sound. Do not touch the shifters again, for now, and bring the bike to a stop. With the rear wheel suspended (just hold it up with one hand, do your best to spin the crank) spin the drive side crank with one hand, supporting the back of the bike with the other. While maintaining the pedaling action, look at the details of your drive chain. Can you see it rubbing or can you help identify the noisy area by listening?

If rubbing anywhere, it could be a "trimming" issue on the crank rings (a common issue and required skill with most friction shifting systems) or improper rear derailleur adjustment (shops do not always get it right, particularly on older bikes).

It might also be your riding style. If you set your drive from big ring to big cog, or little ring to little cog, the problem might be as simple as chain misalignment, a situation corrected by using gearing differently.

Or, I don't know, based on the information, but that is how I would go about trouble shooting the situation.
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Old 07-09-18 | 09:34 AM
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If it's the front that's rubbing, as said, that's normal and expected. That's why having friction shifting on a double chainring is nice. You can put the front derailleur anywhere you want, as you move the rear through the cogs.

Do keep in mind that, as with any bike with 2x- or 3x- derailleur shifting, you should not use the smallest chainring with the smallest cog, or the largest chainring with the largest cog. Those combinations create extreme chain angles (you can see it looking down from the seat) which will most likely rub no matter what you do. Also, those combinations are most likely not needed, as there are other combinations that are nearly the same gear ratio.
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Old 07-09-18 | 09:36 AM
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Thanks for the replies! I’ll def try the suggestions. When you guys say “trimming” do you mean that I click into a gear with the right stick then I have to move the left one slightly sometimes to smooth it out? Also another question I have is looking at the serial number “23092587092”. Does that mean that it is a 30 Inch frame meant for 6’4” people? It seems to fit me fine and I’m not 6’4”
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Old 07-09-18 | 09:55 AM
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"Trimming" is a term applied to friction shifting. When shifting(pulling or releasing the left shift lever), you have to gauge how much to move the lever and feel the chain into proper place. Pull a bit too much and the chain will rub, requiring to pull or "trim" back a wee bit (until grinding stops is the best indicator of success). That's the theory and the rest is up to you to learn as the skill develops.

Indexed shifting does not require "trimming". If properly adjusted, pull to click the shift lever and the derailleur will move the proper amount to place the chain on the chosen cog. If it does not hit ever cog properly, then derailleur tuning is likely in order. I might add that you can probably switch your right shifter to work either as an indexed system, or with a simple twist of the switch, a friction system...
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Old 07-09-18 | 10:34 AM
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Friction shifting for the front derailleur persisted much longer because of the need to trim the front derailleur to stop scraping as you shifted through the gears on the rear. It wasn't until ramped and pinned chainrings allowed smooth front shifting with a wider derailleur cage that indexed front shifting caught on.
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Old 07-09-18 | 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Friction shifting for the front derailleur persisted much longer because of the need to trim the front derailleur to stop scraping as you shifted through the gears on the rear. It wasn't until ramped and pinned chainrings allowed smooth front shifting with a wider derailleur cage that indexed front shifting caught on.
Are you aware of an indexed downtube shifter for the front derailleur? Mine are pretty modern, and I don't need to trim too much, but the left one doesn't click.

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Old 07-09-18 | 10:38 AM
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So it seems I have been paying so much attention to the rear that the front could be the one grinding the whole time. I will have to play with it when I get off work. Do you guys have any thoughts on the serial number I provided? I’m just wanting to know the specs and if I’m reading it right. 23092587092 is the number. Is that 30 size, made in 9/25/87?
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Old 07-09-18 | 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
Are you aware of an indexed downtube shifter for the front derailleur? Mine are pretty modern, and I don't need to trim too much, but the left one doesn't click.
Not for the downtube. By the time component makers got indexed front shifting sorted out, downtube shifters were hopelessly passé.
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Old 07-09-18 | 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Acoolname
So it seems I have been paying so much attention to the rear that the front could be the one grinding the whole time. I will have to play with it when I get off work. Do you guys have any thoughts on the serial number I provided? I’m just wanting to know the specs and if I’m reading it right. 23092587092 is the number. Is that 30 size, made in 9/25/87?
Hi. I have a 1987 Cannondale SR 500 Road Bike that I just started riding again after many years of it sitting. Is this a Mountain Bike? The first two numbers are the frame size so you have a 23 inch frame, the second six numbers are the date manufactured. 09/25/87 as you thought. The third number, 092 is the production sequence.

If you keep your right shift lever in the SIS position, you can not "trim" it. The left shifter that operates the front derailleur is not SIS, just friction as there are only two gears. It sounds like your front, and or rear derailleur needs adjustment. I just did mine, and it is not that difficult. There are many YouTube vids from Park Tool, Art's Cylcery etc that walk you through it. Just do a search.
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Old 07-09-18 | 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
Are you aware of an indexed downtube shifter for the front derailleur? Mine are pretty modern, and I don't need to trim too much, but the left one doesn't click.

Why would you *want* a downtube front shifter to be indexed? Even the brifters today usually have trim features built in, they're only clicky because trigger shifters are ergonomically excellent for the shifter position. If you're using a DT lever anyway, indexing seems like it would be nothing but drawbacks.
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Old 07-09-18 | 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Pilot321
Hi. I have a 1987 Cannondale SR 500 Road Bike that I just started riding again after many years of it sitting. Is this a Mountain Bike? The first two numbers are the frame size so you have a 23 inch frame, the second six numbers are the date manufactured. 09/25/87 as you thought. The third number, 092 is the production sequence.

If you keep your right shift lever in the SIS position, you can not "trim" it. The left shifter that operates the front derailleur is not SIS, just friction as there are only two gears. It sounds like your front, and or rear derailleur needs adjustment. I just did mine, and it is not that difficult. There are many YouTube vids from Park Tool, Art's Cylcery etc that walk you through it. Just do a search.
It is a road bike. I’m not sure what you mean when you say SIS position but when I looked up derailer adjustment not many of the vids came up with down tube shifters.
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Old 07-09-18 | 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Acoolname


It is a road bike. I’m not sure what you mean when you say SIS position but when I looked up derailer adjustment not many of the vids came up with down tube shifters.
I am a relative newbie also, but the it really doesn't matter where your shifters are located when you adjust the derailleurs. If you look closely at the right shift lever, at the bottom where the lever toggles (rotates) it should have an arrow pointing to SIS (the indexing setting where it clicks into each gear), and an arrow pointing to friction, which removes the indexing. "SIS" just means "Shimano Indexing System".

I am confused at your serial number which should begin with the frame size in Centimeters, (CM).

Last edited by Pilot321; 07-09-18 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 07-09-18 | 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Pilot321
I am a relative newbie also, but the it really doesn't matter where your shifters are located when you adjust the derailleurs. If you look closely at the right shift lever, at the bottom where the lever toggles (rotates) it should have an arrow pointing to SIS (the indexing setting where it clicks into each gear), and an arrow pointing to friction, which removes the indexing. "SIS" just means "Shimano Indexing System".

I am confused at your serial number which should begin with the frame size in Centimeters, (CM).
okay I see. Even though mine are suntour and not shimano I would guess it’s the same. So is it possible that I could mess with the left shifter a tad and it would stop grinding? I just find it hard to believe that the LBS I got it from wouldn’t align everything correctly when putting it back together. I feel like it is some dumb mistake I am making. But to make sure. The right one can’t be wrong with me since it is not friction correct?
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Old 07-09-18 | 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Acoolname


okay I see. Even though mine are suntour and not shimano I would guess it’s the same. So is it possible that I could mess with the left shifter a tad and it would stop grinding? I just find it hard to believe that the LBS I got it from wouldn’t align everything correctly when putting it back together. I feel like it is some dumb mistake I am making. But to make sure. The right one can’t be wrong with me since it is not friction correct?
I assumed your was Shimano, which was an oversight on my part. I would imagine the Suntour are similar, but I am not familiar with them at all. Yes, you can trim (micro adjust the left shift lever to move front derailleur) to stop the grinding on the front derailleur, but you have to make sure to check to see if that is where the noise is coming from.

As others have suggested, don't use the front small chain ring for the smallest few rear gears, and don't use the front large chain ring for the largest few rear gears. That should avoid most binding on the front derailleur unless the front derailleur is out of adjustment.
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Old 07-09-18 | 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev
Why would you *want* a downtube front shifter to be indexed? Even the brifters today usually have trim features built in, they're only clicky because trigger shifters are ergonomically excellent for the shifter position. If you're using a DT lever anyway, indexing seems like it would be nothing but drawbacks.
Well I don't, and it doesn't make any sense... but it seemed like Mr. Thompson was implying there was such a thing.
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Old 07-09-18 | 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
Well I don't, and it doesn't make any sense... but it seemed like Mr. Thompson was implying there was such a thing.
I've never used a "brifter", so for me downtube indexing works fine. I like that it "clicks" into gear. My kit is really ancient, but it works pretty well.
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Old 07-09-18 | 02:40 PM
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Your bike indeed has a 23 inch frame. ST frame series (touring oriented) were measured in inches. SR series bikes (racing oriented) were measured in centimeters.

A 1987 Cannondale ST is a wonderful bike with considerable potential.
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Old 07-10-18 | 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
Your bike indeed has a 23 inch frame. ST frame series (touring oriented) were measured in inches. SR series bikes (racing oriented) were measured in centimeters.

A 1987 Cannondale ST is a wonderful bike with considerable potential.

thanks! This is exactly the info I was looking for in regards to the model. I really like the way it looks. Is there any diff in speed in reality to a touring vs a racing old cannondale? I originally got this for triathlons and such. Either way it should be faster than my mountain bike lol.




I was going to answer earlier but apparently you have to wait 24 hours after your first 5 posts on here.. smh

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Old 07-10-18 | 01:08 PM
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It's a fact that for the recreational rider, the ST properly outfitted is every bit as fast as an SR. I have owned multiple versions of both, and keep detailed records of my riding and training times. On my usual 32 mile training loop, which I do an average of three times a week, my nicely equipped SR gets me around in 1:55. Doesn't sound very fast, only in the 16's mph-wise, but there are ten interval quality hills that will slow you down.

Just got back from doing the same 32 mile loop on my ST, on a mid 90's day with hig humidity and a shifting headwind. It's set up as a go-anywhere, ride anywhere travel bike and goes all over the country with me. We're riding in Palouse this weekend and in Wisconsin a few weeks later. Elapsed time was 1:55, same as my SR.

Admittedly, my ST has been heavily modified: yellow powder coated frame, Ultegra/Mavic Open Pro wheelset, Deore derailleurs, a compact Sugino crankset, ten speed DA down tube shifters, 11-34 cassette, C3 seatpost, stem and shallow bars, and a Sella Italia saddle. Tires are Conti Grand Prix 4000 SII in size 28. Regardless, just goes to show that a 22 pouund touring bike, properly set up, can still bake your cookies. So to speak.
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Old 07-10-18 | 01:16 PM
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Bikes: It's complicated.

For the first time in decades, I decided to put DT shifters on a bike, just to see how terrible I remembered them to be.

Turns out, they're not terrible at all. Some ancient muscle memory was put to use. It's not as much effort as I remembered it to be. Cabling certainly is a lot cleaner.

I do tend to shift less. I find myself standing more to overcome small risers rather than automatically shifting down.
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Old 07-10-18 | 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Acoolname
I have the left set to the small gear and when I switch between the clicks on the right they grind while riding.

If the front derailleur "grinds" when you shift the rear derailleur, this is normal. When you shift the rear derailleur the angle of the chain changes and this sometimes causes the front derailleur to need to be "trimmed" - just adjusted a bit to compensate the for the changed chain angle.

The reason the front derailleur isn't indexed is because it needs these little adjustments ("trim") when shifting the RD.
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Old 07-10-18 | 01:32 PM
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That’s great to hear that they are pretty much the same speed. For what I will use it for at least. I will try the different things you guys said on my ride this evening. I really like this bike. It’s literally owning a piece of history. I thought about when I got it I might change it to the shifters being by my hands but that will be a while down the road since I’m not sure how to even do it.
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Old 07-10-18 | 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
Your bike indeed has a 23 inch frame. ST frame series (touring oriented) were measured in inches. SR series bikes (racing oriented) were measured in centimeters.

A 1987 Cannondale ST is a wonderful bike with considerable potential.
Great info. I have an 87 SR500, so did not realize the ST touring oriented bikes were measured in inches. I assumed as much with the OP's post, but its nice to know for sure.

Last edited by Pilot321; 07-10-18 at 03:31 PM.
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