Another "out of the blue" referral and phone call from someone wanting to sell an old guy's bike, this time from the relatives of the old guy (a PhD), instead of the rider himself.

A 1960's bike always sparks my interest, so I went by bike to look at it before asking any detail questions. A repainted and fully functional bike awaited, with an interesting batch of parts transplanted over the years by a veteran of the Death Ride, who it seems is at an age where the family is perhaps making all decisions for him.

I'm told it's from 1965 iir, but I have yet to pull a hub locknut. It has the old-style clamp where the 27.0 seatpost enters the frame, long chainstays and lugs and crown suggesting a likely mid-60's birth date.

From what I understand, this brand IDEOR was from the same region as Atala and a few others that I can't remember. Geometry seems strange, 75-degree seat tube and 72.5-degree headtube, which gave me a bit of "steering heave" as I climbed while off of the saddle holding onto the 40cm bar and 10cm stem, a typical case of slack headtube angle combined with period modest-width bars and generous length stem (for this vintage).
Sized at 55.5cm C-C square, feels small for me but I may try a wider bar and taller stem just to see what happens.

Anyway, here in it's repainted glory (not sure if it looked anything like this when new as I am personally unfamiliar with the brand).

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Thanks for sharing this wonderful new arrival.

According to the accepted history, Torello ceased production of this marque in 1963.

Have seen a couple examples which were noticeably later so perhaps someone purchased the rights to the name.

Forum member GusSalmon of FL has created a transfer set for these should you wish at some point to go the resto route.

This blog post gives some history documentation -

​​​​​​​https://ruotedicarta.blogspot.com/201...deor-1939.html
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Thanks for the info, just the kind of details I was looking for!

My hubs are the "no Record" type which might suggest 1963 is very possible, but then I just pulled off one of the front locknuts and it's CAM 60.

The QR levers have a radical, almost 90-degree bend that looks "factory". Those and the shift levers are "closed C".

Headset locknut has Campagnolo Italy Patent, and the top race has Campagnolo Brev Italy. No spring hole in the dropout/hanger.

I had trouble measuring the headtube angle because of the badge rivets, and I suspect it is perhaps slacker than the 72.5 degrees that I eyeballed and that I measured over the badge screws.

I'm wondering if this is the Asso model, which I believe was their top model. I think that the woman who sold me the bike got all of her info from the web, and she was in communication with someone on a forum who likely told her that the bike was only worth a couple of hundred bucks, about what I offered. Sale included almost new Speedplay pedals and a pair of C-Record style pedals with rare ICS clips and Campagnolo straps.

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My understanding is that the Asso (ace) term is part of the marque name rather than a model name.

Five models of road machine were offered. The top four all employed the same Columbus tubing frameset.

Your curved QR skewers are a stock Campag item and period plausible for the bicycle. They were sometimes referred to as "track skewers." As you noted, the curve is much sharper than the later Campag curved lever skewers.

Frame construced with Agrati "AM" pattern lugset nr. 000.8040/U. The cutouts are a customization of the stock lug. Pattern also employed by Galmozzi and others. The seat lug was offered in several configurations. One could have it with Malaguti plugs and no binder ears as on your frame. Or it could be ordered with standard binder ears with or without the plugs.

You are most fortunate to get the OEM forged binder collar with the name. These are much nicer than the more commonly encountered stamped collars. They are a Magistroni product as shown by Joel at the blackbirds site:



https://www.blackbirdsf.org/magistroni/seatcollar.html

Only the top one or two models received the Campag headset. Others received the IDEOR - Magistroni set.

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Thanks for the comprehensive info! By "plugs" I think that I have figured out that you meant the end plugs on each seatstay.

I've come across those plugs before, on an Italian mystery rust-bucket frame, oddly enough the complete parts ensemble of which had been carefully boxed and stored indoors, including a new-looking Brooks Pro saddle. The only indication that I found of why it was separated from it's parts was a rear hubshell with flanges well out of parallel, as if only the rear wheel had perhaps been run over by a car. I was told at the time (15 years ago) by helpful forums people that it was likely of one of the brands (Ideor, Atala, etc.) from some particular region of Italy. I still was still quite happy to have been gifted all of the parts (including a few Magistroni bits and a Stronglight 57 crankset), and a local friend used the rusted frame as yard art.

Again, thanks for the additional info. I'm heading out the door now to take it for a test-ride, after having restored free movement to the brake cables and adjusted a new WTB Speed saddle. I don't think that this bike has been ridden in about 20 years.

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If your mystery bike from fifteen years ago were an Ideor its model 57 chainset would mark it as the one down from the top model.

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These images of two lugsets illustrate the Malaguti style plugs.

The first picture is of the Agrati "ROMA" pattern nr. 000.8020/U.

Second illustration will be familiar to many Windsor/Carabela owners; they are found on models such as Carrera, Carrera Sport, etc. They used this set extensively but with the "plain" (non-Malaguti) seat lug variant.





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Skewers -

Campag catalogue Nr. 15 of 1967 shows Record Track Hubset Nr. 1036/1 on page 15 with the skewers on your bicycle.

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Headsets -

Have had two come through which wore the Campag Gran Sport headset Nr. 1039. Zeus fans will recognise this as being nearly identical to the Zeus Gran Sport headset Ref. 61.





[there are versions of the Campag Gran Sport which have markings on the lower head cup and adjustable cup.]

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Move the rear wheel all the way forward to set the bike on "it's lines" to check the head tube angle.
I had one, I think you will find it is 72°.

Too bad the chrome is long gone. But the chrome of the period was not terrific anyway.
This is one where you might have to strip it down to assess the approx tubing type.

It is hard to tell from the rough paint, but the upper models received more file work in my opinion.
These suggest a bit on the less filed level.

Try riding it with the saddle as far back as it goes and maybe a shorter stem. Handling might improve. If you don't like the ride it's just another old bike. But switch up this and that and hope for the best before you let it go. If nothing else you got a bucket of nice parts out of the deal. The idea of the extra curve on the QR was you could snug them all the way against the fork or stay and there would be nothing to snag when riding at very close quarters on the track. Race officials were not impressed with that idea, very few were ever raced, Campy gave up on the notion, and now we have some oddball parts still floating around.

I was thinking moving the contact points rearward as well, but will be trying a Short and Shallow type of bar to achieve this, having no drop to the hoods from the bar top (the bike is a little short for me).
The stem is I think an upper-tier SR product, thankfully with decent quill length, and has a 26mm clamping diameter.
I was curious about those curved skewer levers, the tip really does disappear when closed.

I did a decent ride on it today, descended into the canyon and found the seatpost had slipped down a cm or two. I had to raise it back up to climb out. With the steep seattube, moving the saddle back a bit seems like a good idea, even though I typically use a relatively forward saddle position.

I'm sure you are right about the headtube angle. I had suspected that the frame's painted ends were once chrome. I knew it was a repaint from ten feet away when I first saw it, the lady acted surprised but I think that she probably knew better from her online research (which I didn't do any of).

I agree the axle needs to come forward. The bike does ride pretty well but feels very low at the hoods. The Uniglide freewheel shifts great with the SACHS chain.

Those Agrati ROMA head lugs look like the ones on the mystery Italian bike.

I think that my headset is a Record headset. Now I'm wondering if perhaps the seller has the bike's original crankset tucked away somewhere, who knows, it might be a 1st-generation Record set. I will get back to her about whether any more parts turn up, the C-Record pedals just happened to be in view when we looked in a closet for the speedplay pedal's cleats/shoes, and she will be clearing everything out of the garage this week. She also has a pair of 90's Torelli's for sale that are both too small for me. They are anniversary models painted in Italian colors, have a mid-level Campy triple group. I might offer 500 for the pair.

Subscribed. I have an Ideor Asso coming inbound.

Any opinions here about how Campagnolo NR would work on one of these frames? I realize it'd be a little bit of a mismatch and that GS / Magistroni might be more appropriate but I'd rather have something a little more svelte than GS.

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the top-of-the-line model came fitted with Campag Record headset, bottom bracket, chainset, hubs, front mech and saddle pillar. rear mech was GS. Record brakes had not been released by the time production ceased. depending on year and model some bikes received Balilla and some Universal. Super Record should be no problem but some adapting to rear brake centers would be needed. a standard Campag dropbolt might be adequate.

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Cool. I've heard of Ideor saddles before. Didn't know they also made bicycles. That's a sharp one.

I can advise most likely for the ear brake a regular reach Campagnolo caliper with a drop bolt will work.
The front will take even a Weinmann 500.

What you do is take the paint off and have a look at the metalwork. If this bike is as old as the No Record hubs then Italian bling was kinda different and correct-to-catalog is not how they were built. If it was built on a factory floor by laborers it will show. If it was built by factory hands who cared it will show. If it was built by a craftsman that will show too. At any rate in 1960 a bike of this caliber was low production. The current paint is pretty terrible. Anything could be under all those globs of paint. The slot and eye device in the fork crown looks like custom work to me. If I had it I'd have to know.

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Both lugset and fork crown are standard Agrati items which have been modified with the cutouts. Customisation is not proprietary to the marque.

The Agrati stock crown of this pattern was part of the "SPORT" pattern lugset nr. 000.8050/E/U and is item nr. 026.8058. It came stock with a small oval cutout in the side which was enlarged to make the design present.

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dddd -

The Agrati "ROMA" pattern lugset on your telaio di mistero would be consistent with a Rizzato created product, as suggested by one of the posters at the time. They employed the design extensively. In addition to the flagship Atala badge some of the others made by the company included Atlantica, Corso, Dei, Lygie, Maino,

Ride -

one thing to be aware on the frame is that it is designed with a low shell, perhaps something in the area of 10 1/8" bb height. so one needs to be careful about pedaling through corners to avoid pedal strike / "pole vaulting."

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Thanks for the warning about the bb height, especially since I have two-sided pedals on it right now. I'm fitting a pair of SPD-SL's right now!
It fits and rides a ton better since I raised the levers on the bars, moved the rear axle forward, and fitted 28mm Pasela tires that measure an actual 26mm on the narrow Torelli Master rims.

I'm pondering a different handlebar, a 6s freewheel conversion and older crankset and derailers. It's a surprisingly fun ride as it is.

Stripping it of paint would be like doing an excavation, but unlikely I will dedicate the time and effort since this one is a bit small for me.

Any photos out there of what these early-60's examples looked like when new?

10-1/8" BB height is a great opportunity, not a problem. You will get to find out how great a low BB rides, rather than learn at third and fourth hand of the terrors it poses. If there is any problem, any problem at all, the steps to take are simple. Don't use wide pedals. Do use a narrow crank, which means older. 170mm cranks are fine, 165s will be much better than 175. With one-sided pedals, or with clipless, you will have lots of clearance.

If you do ground a pedal you will not pole vault. Does not occur. Problems occur if you have been primed to panic, and then do so. I grounded a pedal just yesterday. Didn't particularly want to scrub metal off a very old 15S pedal, but now it knows it has been used and loved. I am way too old to be falling, grounding a pedal does not risk that.

I've used bikes with BB as low as 9-3/4 - 9-7/8". Ron Boi used to race on a bike he built himself with 101mm of drop, which comes out to something like 9-3/8". Lots of Cinellis had 82mm of drop, which would be 10-1/8" on a small tire and you don't hear about how awful Cinellis were.

At one time that lugset was fairly common. I've seen it on relatively ordinary bikes and seen it on three lugs chromed specials. Removing paint is dead simple. Putting it back on gets difficult.

There are good photos on Classic Rendezvous of a bike very similar to yours. Go to Google images and look around. Bicycle Specialties/Mariposa did a resto of a '63 and posted pics. Looks like high end work to me.