I recently let go of a beautiful bike I picked up locally from someone who found it in his closet. The bike fit perfectly and after upgrading the bars and levers to aero and respacing the freehub from 6 to 7 gears, it flew over the roads with what seemed like almost no effort. It was an Italian frame with Columbus tubing, a chrome fork crown, 27" wheels and a redwood tree for the headtube decal. But alas, I let it go in anticipation of moving and have regretted it ever since. But even though I rode it everyday it became apparent that the bottom bracket shell was stripped to the extent that the bottom bracket would click on all the standing hill climbs. A frame builder who had already looked at a couple times to braze brass into and retap the threads said he would replace the shell for a modest price, but instead relinquished it to someone who spotted it on craigslist.

Anyway this bike seemed extremely light at a total of around 27 lbs with a rear rack, and I am looking to replace it with another that is similar. I am currently looking at a frame and fork the seller told me is just under 6 lbs and would like to know if this is relatively light for Reynolds 653 CroMo.

Currently working on a 1987 Specialized Sirrus frame. Was a bit disappointed when I weighed the bare frame at 4.5 pounds, as I have some in the 3.8 to 4.2 pound range. But, I was pleased to find the fork came in at 1.4 pounds, while some of mine run 1.6 to 1.8 pounds.

if the bare 653 frame/fork is under 6 pounds, you should be able to reach 27 pounds with a similar build to what you had before. Don

Sub 6 lbs for a steel frame and fork is quite light. Even with modest components and a rack, this should easily build into a sub 25 lb bicycle. With tubular wheels and good components, you should be looking around 20-21 lbs.

Your subject is "average frame weight" but you're talking about Reynolds 653, which is a more exotic variety.


I have about 15 bike frames here, that will fit either my spouse or me. I'd say that they're "average" in that most of them are Reynolds 531, a couple Vitus, a couple Columbus. Most of them are built by reputable folk. I've weighed them all. Overall, I have to say that 6 pounds (2724 g) is a darn light frameset. The very lightest, in that 6 lb area, are a 60 cm (CTT) frame from 1950, a 55 cm Mondia cyclocross from 1977 or so, and a 53 cm Motobécane Grand Jubilé from the same year. All the rest, up to 63 cm, are clustered around 3000 g to 3200 g (6.6 to 7 lb), with an outlier, one of my favorites as it happens, at 3600 (8 lb!) -- seamed straight-gauge tubing. None of these are "work bikes" or other heavyweights.

I built a frame from True Temper RC2 tubing (think Reynolds 531) in a 57cm size. The frame was 4.5lbs on the nose. The fork was 1.5lbs on the nose. Using robust Suntour components with indestructible Araya DP18 rims and 36 spokes, 28mm tires, the bike came in at 25lbs with rack and H2O cages. Friction shift and freewheel with Suntour Barcons. 6lbs frameset can easily be turned into a 21lbs complete bike.
At the same time my buddy Dave built his from HOX in a 59cm size and the frame was 6oz lighter than mine! Wall thickness was the difference.

How much does a magic carpet weigh?

This is a good new for me ! My Victoria bare frame/fork weight 2780 grms, that's 6.1 lbs. Though weight is not a concern for me it's good to know someday I can build a light steel bike!

I weighed my Merckx 653 frame/fork/HS at 5.6 lbs and didn't think much of it until later when all my other racing frames kept weighing in at over 6. One day, when I'm looking for a project, I mean to strip it down and weigh it again. At any rate it came in at a total of 22 lbs with a relatively heavy C-Record era Athena/Chorus group.

Indeed it was a Palo Alto -- the bike shop near Stanford on the SF Peninsula subbed their frame building out to a frame maker in Italy. Thinktubes, would it be possible to look and see what is stamped on the shell of your bike's bottom bracket. Someone pointed out the stamp of the frame maker but I forgot to write it down.

But who?

My magic carpet weighs about 26.5 lbs. Things that make it that heavy include:

It is pretty darn big. 64cm x 61.5cm, both ctc, big;
It's made of Columbus SP, the thicker (and heavier) brother of SL, which is a good idea for 265lbs of me.
It's a mid-1960s Cinelli; Cino had them built pretty stout.

I have not weighed this one stripped down, but based on a 60cm Cinelli f/f/hs I just weighed (and which likely has SL tubing instead of SP) that came in at 6.8 lbs., the big boy as a f/f/hs almost certainly weighs 7 lbs or a fraction more.

Oh, and it rides like a dream.

here's the bike I sold earlier this year for a very modest sum

Thanks - I had been curious about that.

I know Biemmezta built some Palo Altos - whether they built 'em all, I'm not sure. I seem to recall seeing somewhere that a young Tom Ritchey built some Palo Altos, but I could be wrong.

In any event, if Biemmezeta built it, it will have "BMZ" stamped somewhere on it, most likely under BB shell.

8.0 lbs frame and fork, Oria Hi--ten, mid to late 90s.


Pinarello Cadore

And it builds up to...…….. Ahhhh…… who cares. Rides like a heavy, muted racer - steady and predictable.

Flandria Columbus SL Niobium Road: 3,9 lbs.
This is a vintage frame that is built new.

If you want meaningful comparisons of frame weights, you have to be sure you're comparing frames of the same size. And even with that in mind, "frame size" is a remarkably imprecise concept; different manufacturers specifications are based on different measurements, different people measure different ways, and so on.

And then there's the frame and the fork.

For a while now I've been trying to remember to weigh any frame or fork I have in my hands that's completely bare of hardware. No BB cups, no seat post bolt, no headset.

Restricting myself to frames of one size, nominally 24", the lightest are my Fothergill (frame is 69 oz, fork 23 oz, total 5.75 lbs). This frame was made either just before, or just after, the second world war; either Reynolds 531 or A&P Kromo. I believe the lugs are Brampton, and the builder spent a lot of time thinning them.

My Holdsworth is only a little heavier (frame 70 oz, fork 28 oz, total 6.13 lbs). This is a butted Reynolds 531 frame from the mid 1970's, with Prugnat lugs.

My Allegro is quite a bit heavier (frame 78 oz, fork 29 oz, total 6.69 lbs). This is a butted Reynolds 531 frame frame from 1960, Nervex Professional lugs, not thinned much if at all.

My custom made SquareBuilt is also comparatively heavy (frame 75 oz, fork 40 oz). This is Columbus SL tubing; that is, the main triangle is SL, the rest is all Columbus but I don't have the specs. Fillet brazed frame built in 2016.

I don't know why the Allegro weighs so much more than the Holdsworth; the only significant difference is the lugs. The Squarebuilt weighs more because it is made for much wider tires, has a wider fork crown, longer and thicker steerer tube, brazed on bosses for cantilever brakes, etc. I presume the Squarebuilt's threadless headset system allows use of a lighter stem than the others, so evening out the difference a bit.

The only frame I've weighed that's lighter than the Fothergill is an Armstrong from about 1950; that, too, may be A&P Kromo tubing, and it weighs 67 oz. But it's a 23" frame, not directly comparable. It has Ekla lugs, nicely thinned. I don't remember the fork weight.

I have it written down somewhere bare frame weight but....
​​​​​​​My steel 54cm Ironman have Tange 1 with no thought to making them light weighed on average 22.? Lbs.
In that era 20lbs and below were considered "race ready bikes" and you weren't considered a racer unless you could break an hour in 25 mile TT. That's what I remember.

Not average by any stretch, but it is steel and very light.

XL 26in. 1978 Jim Merz touring, Campy triple, long cage, pedals and big bars = 22.5lbs.

This is very true. I recently facilitated the purchase of a 1983 Specialized Sequoia frame and fork for another BF member. Since I have a 1982 Sequoia, I had a good basis for comparison, right? Well, it turned out the 1983 frame weighed about 1.5 pounds more than my 1982 model.

Of course, mine is a 56cm and the one I was facilitating is a 68.5cm. Besides the bigger frame having a whole lot more tubing, I think the tubes might have been butted differently to accommodate the giant sized frame.


In any event, I find that frame weight is a fairly small factor in the weight of a bike. The difference between a really light steel frame and an average (but not bike boom gaspipe) steel frame is usually around a pound or two. I find that most of my steel bike end up weighing between 22 and 24 pounds before I start adding racks and fenders.

I think this sheds some light on the size/measurement "thing".

Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - Measuring Frames

Since I had it pulled apart, I weighed it... my 1971 Raleigh Record (made with Truwel tubing, whatever that is), in a 23 1/2" frame size, weights 6.4 lbs for the frame, with the fork coming in at 1.4 lbs, for a total of 7.8 lbs. Your bathroom scale may vary.

I generally weigh frames bare except for the pressed-in parts: fork crown race, head tube bottom cup and head tube top race. I don't remove these parts unless they're overworn. Most of the frames I've bought with myself in mind are in the 60-63 cm range -- while frame size is obviously a factor, it's surprised me how little difference 3 cm of seat tube, head tube and stays seems to make.



I bought a Serotta frame that's 63 cm CTT; supposedly Columbus SLP and SL; it's heavier than an equivalent-sized PX10, and all but one other frame here; 3255 g, or about 7.2 lb. It looks light, though.