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Evolution of the Cassette

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Old 09-09-18 | 12:39 PM
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Evolution of the Cassette

Several years ago I bought a used Miyata 912 (orange) from around 1979 or 80 with Shimano 600EX (Arabesque) components. Just recently I tore it down to restore it. The rear hub and cassette body are one, which I understand is the first generation Shimano Uniglide (no hump on drive side of hub).

Being stuck in the late 1960's and 70's, I have only used freewheels, this is my first experience with a cassette type hub so I know nothing about them.

It would be nice to know a sort of timeline of cassette/free-hub models and types. What's obsolete, what's currently available and interchangeability of brands.
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Old 09-09-18 | 01:19 PM
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You’ve got a lot of catching up to do! I too never even had a cassette hub until sometime in the 90’s when I got a second hand Saint Tropez road bike with Shimano 105 6 speed freehub Uniglide drivetrain.

Sorry but I can’t offer a link that shows the full evolution of Shimano’s freehubs over the years. I will say that the continual development and product cycles that favor innovation, have led to a lot of cast off variants that a few of us are passionate about and a few people despise.

I paid particular attention when Uniglide (UG) became Interactive Glide (IG) which then became Hyperglide (HG). Older 6/7 speed frameowners who wanted to fully optimize their frames with the best functioning geartrains had to make a decision -should they spread their frame to 130 to permit 8/9/9 or 11 speed? Or, would they dig their heels in and stockpile a healthy supply of 7 speed parts? I must confess that I’m in the latter category. My Dura Ace 7400 Uniglide 7 speed hub commuter bike has one of the most durable cassette systems imaginable. Unfortunately they are not “future proof” due to the design of the freehub body itself. Yes, you can hunt for a 7403 Dura Ace freehub convertible freehub body which will permit a person to run both 8/9/or 10 speed HG cassettes (the modern HG lockring type) or 7/8 speed UG cassettes (the threaded outer cog type).

The supply of NOS Uniglide parts is finite, since they have been out of production since the early 90’s. Personally, I keep hoping that an ambitious machinist or designer with the latest 3D printer will make some production runs on desirable Uniglide cassette assemblies. The originals, while heavy by modern standards are iconic and collectible as far as I can tell. Modern parts have moved on and are lighter and even better functionally but the build quality and level of polish/or hand-crafted quality of some of these iconic older bits have yet to be matched. Just look at drillium-dude’s work on Imgur if you want to be inspired.
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Old 09-09-18 | 01:34 PM
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Since this is C&V, the Evolution of the cassette apparently started quite early.

Bayliss Wiley Hub

https://www.ebay.com/itm/282324896152



This may well be one of those things that early patents happened, and essentially blocked development of the technology for 30 years or so. Then once the patents expired, there was a major boom of development across all brands. Shimano/Suntour/Campagnolo.

I actually am also one of the cyclists that made the jump from freehubs to cassettes rather late.

If I had only know the ease of acquiring 11T cassettes, I probably would have made the conversion long before. But, since I made the leap late, I've pretty much skipped the uniglide generation.

I am very disappointed that my previous experience seemed to indicate that the old freewheels were almost indestructible, and then I started getting cassettes, and really have to watch chain wear like a hawk.
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Old 09-09-18 | 01:38 PM
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Main issue for me was Hub Axles,, got hubs with unbendable axles (Phil, Bullseye)
and that problem was solved..

On my Campag freewheel Hubs, I Got 'Wheels' replacement axles,
they seem less brittle hard heat treated, compared with what Tullio & Company made..
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Old 09-09-18 | 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Main issue for me was Hub Axles,, got hubs with unbendable axles (Phil, Bullseye)
and that problem was solved..

On my Campag freewheel Hubs, I Got 'Wheels' replacement axles,
they seem less brittle hard heat treated, compared with what Tullio & Company made..
Every used Mountain bike I've ever came across came with a bent axle. I've decided they must come with pre-bent axles.

But, I don't think I've ever bent or broken an axle on my road bike.

But, I cut my teeth riding on vintage sewups. And, for some reason, I don't think I ever had them over 80 PSI. Needless to say, I got very adept at paying attention to what I was running over.
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Old 09-09-18 | 02:33 PM
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The free hub on my 79 Miyata 912 ended up giving up the ghost, it was like the rear wheel was on ice with the hub constantly slipping, I ended up getting a new set of wheels for the bike as the frame rode so well, I wish I had never sold that bike.
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Old 09-09-18 | 06:29 PM
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Neat. Does anyone know if there's a better, lighter version of the HG-37 7-sp freewheel that is also at least 13-26? I see tons of 13-28's, but I am looking to upgrade a 7-sp DA from a fairly light 13-21 to something my legs can handle but not feel like I added a cinder block to the rear.
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Old 09-09-18 | 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61
You’ve got a lot of catching up to do! I too never even had a cassette hub until sometime in the 90’s when I got a second hand Saint Tropez road bike with Shimano 105 6 speed freehub Uniglide drivetrain.

Sorry but I can’t offer a link that shows the full evolution of Shimano’s freehubs over the years. I will say that the continual development and product cycles that favor innovation, have led to a lot of cast off variants that a few of us are passionate about and a few people despise.

I paid particular attention when Uniglide (UG) became Interactive Glide (IG) which then became Hyperglide (HG). Older 6/7 speed frameowners who wanted to fully optimize their frames with the best functioning geartrains had to make a decision -should they spread their frame to 130 to permit 8/9/9 or 11 speed? Or, would they dig their heels in and stockpile a healthy supply of 7 speed parts? I must confess that I’m in the latter category. My Dura Ace 7400 Uniglide 7 speed hub commuter bike has one of the most durable cassette systems imaginable. Unfortunately they are not “future proof” due to the design of the freehub body itself. Yes, you can hunt for a 7403 Dura Ace freehub convertible freehub body which will permit a person to run both 8/9/or 10 speed HG cassettes (the modern HG lockring type) or 7/8 speed UG cassettes (the threaded outer cog type).

The supply of NOS Uniglide parts is finite, since they have been out of production since the early 90’s. Personally, I keep hoping that an ambitious machinist or designer with the latest 3D printer will make some production runs on desirable Uniglide cassette assemblies. The originals, while heavy by modern standards are iconic and collectible as far as I can tell. Modern parts have moved on and are lighter and even better functionally but the build quality and level of polish/or hand-crafted quality of some of these iconic older bits have yet to be matched. Just look at drillium-dude’s work on Imgur if you want to be inspired.
Thanks for the thought provoking post. I recently picked-up a half dozen UG cassettes along with some others that don't fit my 600EX free-hub. I'll post some photos of the "mis-fits" for i.d.

Drillium-Dudes work is outstanding! i had not been aware of him until now.
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Old 09-09-18 | 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Since this is C&V, the Evolution of the cassette apparently started quite early.


I actually am also one of the cyclists that made the jump from freehubs to cassettes rather late.

If I had only know the ease of acquiring 11T cassettes, I probably would have made the conversion long before. But, since I made the leap late, I've pretty much skipped the uniglide generation.

I am very disappointed that my previous experience seemed to indicate that the old freewheels were almost indestructible, and then I started getting cassettes, and really have to watch chain wear like a hawk.
Are you saying cassettes wear chains faster than conventional freewheels? I see that the cogs on the 600EX cassette are "twisted" inward. Does this accelerate chain wear?
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Old 09-09-18 | 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
Are you saying cassettes wear chains faster than conventional freewheels? I see that the cogs on the 600EX cassette are "twisted" inward. Does this accelerate chain wear?
It is my belief that the non-sychro freewheels had big, fat, beefy teeth that wore very well.

With the indexed (hyperglide), the manufacturers started thinning and shaping the cassette teeth (and also new freewheels).

Lately I have had issues with cassettes and new freewheels wearing awfully fast.

It could be different metals. Undoubtedly I am riding a lot. But, I've never had this many problems in the past, and wasn't very proactive with chain replacement.

I do have a dura ace hybrid cassette that I am being very cautious on chain wear and it seems to be lasting pretty well, but it does show some heavy wear.

But, I did manage to toast a new 8 speed freewheel from new to toasted in maybe 1000 miles.
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Old 09-10-18 | 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
Neat. Does anyone know if there's a better, lighter version of the HG-37 7-sp freewheel that is also at least 13-26? I see tons of 13-28's, but I am looking to upgrade a 7-sp DA from a fairly light 13-21 to something my legs can handle but not feel like I added a cinder block to the rear.
Talking 7s freewheels here, Sunrace makes a 13-25t 7-speeder, which I am thankful for. It has all odd numbers. It's not very light. Next step up is their 13-28t. This must be about all that the market is demanding in any good quantity as far as freewheels, though there are those mega-range things for hill-assist.
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Old 09-10-18 | 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
Thanks for the thought provoking post. I recently picked-up a half dozen UG cassettes along with some others that don't fit my 600EX free-hub. I'll post some photos of the "mis-fits" for i.d.

Drillium-Dudes work is outstanding! i had not been aware of him until now.
Yes, please show us what you’ve got. The lock ring cogs were slightly different diameters depending on if it was Dura Ace, or EX/LX/105/600/Sante’/Ultegra/etc...
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Old 09-10-18 | 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
It is my belief that the non-sychro freewheels had big, fat, beefy teeth that wore very well.

With the indexed (hyperglide), the manufacturers started thinning and shaping the cassette teeth (and also new freewheels).

Lately I have had issues with cassettes and new freewheels wearing awfully fast.

It could be different metals. Undoubtedly I am riding a lot. But, I've never had this many problems in the past, and wasn't very proactive with chain replacement.

I do have a dura ace hybrid cassette that I am being very cautious on chain wear and it seems to be lasting pretty well, but it does show some heavy wear.

But, I did manage to toast a new 8 speed freewheel from new to toasted in maybe 1000 miles.
Also blame the move from 6 speeds to ultra-6/7/8 and then to 9 and then to 10 or 11, with the chain and the cogs having to get narrower each time. I currently run an ultra-6 on the Peugeot, standard 6-speeds on the Bianchi and the 1959 Capo (which I cold-set to 126mm before I had it painted), and an 8-speed cassette on the mountain bike (up from the original 7-speed freewheel). I hesitate to go beyond 7 speeds on the road bikes and 8 on the mountain bike, and really see no need to, since I can get both the low/mid 40s to mid-90s gear-inch ranges and 6-7 percent ratio progressions I want with a 2x6 (barely adequate), a 2x7, or a 3x6 rig.
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Old 09-10-18 | 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by John E
Also blame the move from 6 speeds to ultra-6/7/8 and then to 9 and then to 10 or 11, with the chain and the cogs having to get narrower each time. I currently run an ultra-6 on the Peugeot, standard 6-speeds on the Bianchi and the 1959 Capo (which I cold-set to 126mm before I had it painted), and an 8-speed cassette on the mountain bike (up from the original 7-speed freewheel). I hesitate to go beyond 7 speeds on the road bikes and 8 on the mountain bike, and really see no need to, since I can get both the low/mid 40s to mid-90s gear-inch ranges and 6-7 percent ratio progressions I want with a 2x6 (barely adequate), a 2x7, or a 3x6 rig.
I can't speak to chain wear, but I'm in complete agreement on the rest.
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Old 09-10-18 | 07:54 AM
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Chain wear occurs between the rollers and the bushes (or the formed flanges of the inner plates on bushless chains). Chain wear took a significant leap with the introduction of bushless chains, which do not provide as much of a bearing surface with the roller as bush style chains. The first bushless chains appeared circa 1981, shortly after the move to 6 speed. Bushless chains were less expensive to manufacture than bush style, so the increased wear was not a concern for most cyclists, especially when you took into consideration that they ran notably quieter and shifted better due to the increased lateral flex provided by the design. Of course, the increased flexibility led to a proliferation of cogs, which led to even narrower chains, increasing the loads and wear rates. Designers tried to mitigate the wear and maximize roller width by decreasing pin protrusion and using thinner plates but this was offset by consumer preference for chains with bulged plates that provided better shifting. If you have wear concerns, the only solutions are to be more diligent with lubrication or buy higher grade chains with more durable materials but I don't consider chain wear rates to be an issue. When I consider performance and inflation, moderately priced modern chains are a much better value than their C&V forerunners.
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Old 09-10-18 | 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
Neat. Does anyone know if there's a better, lighter version of the HG-37 7-sp freewheel that is also at least 13-26? I see tons of 13-28's, but I am looking to upgrade a 7-sp DA from a fairly light 13-21 to something my legs can handle but not feel like I added a cinder block to the rear.
Originally Posted by dddd
Talking 7s freewheels here, Sunrace makes a 13-25t 7-speeder, which I am thankful for. It has all odd numbers. It's not very light. Next step up is their 13-28t. This must be about all that the market is demanding in any good quantity as far as freewheels, though there are those mega-range things for hill-assist.
I too am thankful for the freewheel Mega-range jobbies. Admit they're not attractive and they weigh... (7 speed 13/34t is 479gm) yet the payoff is in kicking azz, easy peasy climbs with any load. Bonus is the low cost. Paid $3 each for NOS a few years ago! Installed them on others bikes and kept two. One I have on a Trek 520 tour rig, Sunshine hubs, friction shift Suntour Cyclone.

Be bold and convert the DA derailleur to a long cage. Then, if the Mega-range looks embarrassing, take a Dremel to the big cog. Hehe

....back to freehubs
The UG freehub body can be swapped out to the HG. I have a Shimano Sante 7sp UG on the bench that's getting an HG, 8 speed cassette 11/28t, likely will have index 600 dt shifter.
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Old 09-10-18 | 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by masi61
...The lock ring cogs were slightly different diameters depending on if it was Dura Ace, or EX/LX/105/600/Sante’/Ultegra/etc...


Shimano's threaded cassette cogs were all of the same threading, except for Dura-Ace which was smaller to allow making an 11t top cog. Yes, those were a thing back in the Uniglide days, even Suntour had been supplying 11t cogs for their freewheels.
The Dura-Ace threading was stepped down from the outside of the splined freehub body, so is easy to spot. The cogs themselves have a quite visibly-smaller ID as well, but you might have to look for a second to notice it.



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Old 09-10-18 | 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
I actually am also one of the cyclists that made the jump from freehubs to cassettes rather late.
Did you mean "...from freewheels to cassettes rather late"? Since freehubs and cassettes are compatible while freewheels are different.
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Old 09-10-18 | 01:24 PM
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Old 09-10-18 | 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar
Chain wear occurs between the rollers and the bushes (or the formed flanges of the inner plates on bushless chains). Chain wear took a significant leap with the introduction of bushless chains, which do not provide as much of a bearing surface with the roller as bush style chains. The first bushless chains appeared circa 1981, shortly after the move to 6 speed. Bushless chains were less expensive to manufacture than bush style, so the increased wear was not a concern for most cyclists, especially when you took into consideration that they ran notably quieter and shifted better due to the increased lateral flex provided by the design. Of course, the increased flexibility led to a proliferation of cogs, which led to even narrower chains, increasing the loads and wear rates. Designers tried to mitigate the wear and maximize roller width by decreasing pin protrusion and using thinner plates but this was offset by consumer preference for chains with bulged plates that provided better shifting. If you have wear concerns, the only solutions are to be more diligent with lubrication or buy higher grade chains with more durable materials but I don't consider chain wear rates to be an issue. When I consider performance and inflation, moderately priced modern chains are a much better value than their C&V forerunners.
T-mar, any information you post is for me as good as gospel. I will say, that given a choice, I would rather have a longer lasting chain that maybe gives up a little shifting robustness. My horded stock of used but usable old school 5-6 speed chains is gradually getting depleted through use, but these are my first choice for my bikes with conventional sprocket spacing. For that matter, I don't perceive any adverse shifting or noise aspects compared to my narrow spaced rides with corresponding narrower chains. I am not one to cross chain, except by accident, I hasten to add.
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Old 09-10-18 | 07:56 PM
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Here are the other cassettes I acquired which do not fit my Shimano 600EX hub...



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Old 09-10-18 | 10:38 PM
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Old 09-10-18 | 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
Here are the other cassettes I acquired which do not fit my Shimano 600EX hub...
#1 and #3 are Hyperglide type cassettes. The cogs can be made to fit your Uniglide hub. If you look closely, there is one spline on each cog that is wider than the others. A little work with a file or Dremel on the wider spline will allow it to fit the Uniglide cassette body.

#2 is a SunTour cassette. It cannot be made to fit your hub.

FWIW: The majority of the changeover from freewheel to cassette hubs happened in the 1980's. Shimano cassette hubs appeared in 1982-ish (1982 Shimano Dealer catalog: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/) and took off with the mountain bike revolution. By 1990 most bikes had cassette hubs. I spent that decade working in shops and the bicycle business and watched it happen.
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Old 09-11-18 | 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills
#1 and #3 are Hyperglide type cassettes. The cogs can be made to fit your Uniglide hub. If you look closely, there is one spline on each cog that is wider than the others. A little work with a file or Dremel on the wider spline will allow it to fit the Uniglide cassette body.

#2 is a SunTour cassette. It cannot be made to fit your hub.

FWIW: The majority of the changeover from freewheel to cassette hubs happened in the 1980's. Shimano cassette hubs appeared in 1982-ish (1982 Shimano Dealer catalog: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/) and took off with the mountain bike revolution. By 1990 most bikes had cassette hubs. I spent that decade working in shops and the bicycle business and watched it happen.
Thanks!
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Old 09-11-18 | 03:42 AM
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There are also transition Shimano freehubs that will fit either Hyperglide or Uniglide cassettes.

It might be worth installing if you can locate one.

Many of the Shimano branded freehubs are similar enough to allow them to be swapped.
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