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Is there a bottom bracket cartridge that will work?

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Is there a bottom bracket cartridge that will work?

Old 10-09-18, 03:04 PM
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mmcc73
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Is there a bottom bracket cartridge that will work?

Hi All - I'm rehabbing a mid 70s Dawes Galaxy, and I'm trying to determine if there are any bottom bracket cartridges that will fit. If not, I'll happily service the cup and cone bottom bracket it came with.

The movable cup is marked 1.37x24T.
The width of the shell seems to be 66.5mm if I'm measuring correctly (see photo).
The spindle seems to be a 3U size from the Sheldon Brown page of bottom bracket sizing (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html), which indicates a 133mm spindle would be needed on a symmetric bottom bracket.

The Googling I've done has not revealed any bottom brackets sporting a 133mm spindle, much less one that works with a 66.5mm shell. But, perhaps I'm just missing something here.

Thanks!

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Old 10-09-18, 04:55 PM
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I doubt 133 has to be used. I'd get a couple of old BB's and try them with a crankset you plan to use.

In some cases, an hour of trial and error can save you a lot of headache and money and time.

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Old 10-09-18, 05:32 PM
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Unfortunately, I don't have a source for old bottom brackets to test with.

I did find this, which has a 131mm spindle:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BOTTOM-BRAC...W/223076020974

I've never heard of Neco, and I'm guessing this wouldn't be an upgrade to the fallback cup and cone option.
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Old 10-09-18, 05:50 PM
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It gets more complicated if you are mixing JIS and ISO spindles. Go with the cup and cone or replace the whole crankset (crank, cartridge bottom bracket).
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Old 10-09-18, 05:57 PM
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What crankset are you using? Crankset dictates bottom bracket. It could be someone replaced it at some point. How is the chainline? You should be able to use a spacer or two under the bottom bracket to make 68mm. Much easier than trying to make a bottom bracket smaller.
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Old 10-09-18, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
What crankset are you using? Crankset dictates bottom bracket. It could be someone replaced it at some point. How is the chainline? You should be able to use a spacer or two under the bottom bracket to make 68mm. Much easier than trying to make a bottom bracket smaller.
Crankset is a Sakae SA. I have no idea how the chain line is as the chain is currently in the garbage - I recently bought the bike and am doing a complete overhaul.

Good idea on using a spacer to make up the missing 1.5mm.
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Old 10-09-18, 06:37 PM
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Is it a double or triple? You can measure the bolt circle diameter to determine if it is 110 or 144.

For a double, 3p would need a 122mm modern symmetrical bottom bracket, 3s would need a 127mm. Old spindles were shorter on the non drive side (asymmetrical). If you have a triple it very well may be a 3U and a 133 symmetrical bottom bracket.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

BB Length (110 BCD) = "3P"
BB Length (144 BCD) = "3S"

VeloBase.com - Component: Sakae/Ringyo (SR) SA
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Old 10-09-18, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
Is it a double or triple? You can measure the bolt circle diameter to determine if it is 110 or 144.

For a double, 3p would need a 122mm modern symmetrical bottom bracket, 3s would need a 127mm. Old spindles were shorter on the non drive side (asymmetrical). If you have a triple it very well may be a 3U and a 133 symmetrical bottom bracket.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

BB Length (110 BCD) = "3P"
BB Length (144 BCD) = "3S"

VeloBase.com - Component: Sakae/Ringyo (SR) SA
Thanks for the info!

It is a double, and 110 BCD.

So even though the existing spindle in asymmetrical and has an overall length of 124.5mm (as measured with my lovely yellow plastic calipers) I can use a symmetrical bottom bracket with a 122mm spindle?
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Old 10-09-18, 08:12 PM
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I'd go at least 124.
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Old 10-09-18, 09:00 PM
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You can buy a 1 or 2mm spacer to get some offset DS and solve your narrow shell issue at the same time. Could be labeled as either a bottom bracket or as a freewheel spacer, same thing.
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Old 10-10-18, 01:14 AM
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Just installed a Sakae SA triple crank on a Rodriguez with a 68mm BB shell. A Shimano 123mm cartridge BB gave a perfect 45mm chainline to the middle ring.
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Old 10-10-18, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
You can buy a 1 or 2mm spacer to get some offset DS and solve your narrow shell issue at the same time. Could be labeled as either a bottom bracket or as a freewheel spacer, same thing.
Thanks - though I don't know what "offset DS" is. Would you mind explaining that term?
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Old 10-10-18, 10:48 AM
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"DS" is DriveSide. He's saying you can use a BB spacer to add some shell width to the driveside.

I would check the shell width with a reliable caliper before messing with spacers. Chances are it's 68 and your plastic caliper just sucks.
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Old 10-10-18, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mmcc73 View Post
Thanks - though I don't know what "offset DS" is. Would you mind explaining that term?
TGB got it above. It possibly can reduce the spindle length you need to get the correct chainline.
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Old 10-10-18, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
"DS" is DriveSide. He's saying you can use a BB spacer to add some shell width to the driveside.

I would check the shell width with a reliable caliper before messing with spacers. Chances are it's 68 and your plastic caliper just sucks.

For some reason my '74 Raleigh Comp has a 66odd shell. I noticed that the NDS cup (on a replacement Shimano that had been installed) was spaced out from the shell, but I could not tighten it further. So I measured the shell, and it's narrow.
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Old 10-10-18, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres View Post
For some reason my '74 Raleigh Comp has a 66odd shell. I noticed that the NDS cup (on a replacement Shimano that had been installed) was spaced out from the shell, but I could not tighten it further. So I measured the shell, and it's narrow.
Ahh, that famous Raleigh craftsmanship!
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Old 10-10-18, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
"DS" is DriveSide. He's saying you can use a BB spacer to add some shell width to the driveside.

I would check the shell width with a reliable caliper before messing with spacers. Chances are it's 68 and your plastic caliper just sucks.
How dare you impugn the quality of my plastic calipers that I paid a buck for at a garage sale!

I checked the measurement against a ruler, and it checked out. Someone mentioned a 66mm shell on a Raleigh - perhaps it is an English bike thing?

Edit: found this thread
Bottom bracket shell measures 66mm.
"There were several British bikes that came from the factory with BB shells measuring about 66 mm. Moultons commonly have a 66 mm BB and they were almost never faced."

Last edited by mmcc73; 10-10-18 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 10-11-18, 09:04 AM
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I have a Shimano UN55 68x122.5 and an assortment of spacers on the way. We'll see how it works out. Thanks for all the input!
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Old 10-11-18, 07:23 PM
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Heres a top view of 1.37 I.D. modern cassette spacers I used on my Frankenbike Super Course to get the Sugino AT triple inner chainring screws to clear my frame. Never checked chainline dim. but it works great with a 125mm spindle.
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Old 04-29-19, 12:08 PM
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So, 6 months later and I'm finally getting around to putting things together. I put a spacer on the drive side and I have plenty of clearance from the chain stay, but my front derailleur doesn't have quite enough outward range to get to the larger chain ring.

I'm thinking I'll just put the spacer on the non drive side, but before doing so I thought I'd check to see if I'm doing something disastrous.

Any worries about putting the spacer on the other side?

Thanks,
Clark

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Old 04-29-19, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mmcc73 View Post
I have a Shimano UN55 68x122.5 and an assortment of spacers on the way. We'll see how it works out. Thanks for all the input!
That is a good cheap way to start, I recently went through two cartridge bbs on a triple chain ring bike I was refurbishing neither was wide enough so I gave up and went back to the stock cup and cone. I wish you better luck!
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Old 04-29-19, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mmcc73 View Post
So, 6 months later and I'm finally getting around to putting things together. I put a spacer on the drive side and I have plenty of clearance from the chain stay, but my front derailleur doesn't have quite enough outward range to get to the larger chain ring.

I'm thinking I'll just put the spacer on the non drive side, but before doing so I thought I'd check to see if I'm doing something disastrous.

Any worries about putting the spacer on the other side?

Thanks,
Clark

I would suggest trying it without the spacer at all - normally the spacer is to give you room on the drive side so your inner ring isn't scraping on the chain stay, don't think you would need it on the non drive side unless its to make up for the narrow bb shell- experiment.

Was your FD working in the Original configuration?
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Old 04-29-19, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ryansu View Post
I would suggest trying it without the spacer at all - normally the spacer is to give you room on the drive side so your inner ring isn't scraping on the chain stay, don't think you would need it on the non drive side. Was your FD working in the Original configuration?
The reason I assume I need a spacer somewhere is because the BB is made for a 68mm shell, and my shell is only 66mm. Plus, I need to shift the spindle towards the non drive side, and if I remember correctly it is fixed to the non drive side.

Dunno if the derailleur worked before - I didn't try it before stripping the bike down.
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Old 04-29-19, 12:35 PM
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Give it a test without the spacer see if the cups go all the way in, and if you have clearance for the inner chain ring, does the crank spin freely -if those things check see how the FD lines up. The FD issue may be totally unrelated.

Sometimes working on vintage bikes is like a story problem from middle school math Jimmy has 3 bottom bracket spacers, a cartridge BB and an BSD threaded BB shell, how many beers will it take before Jimmy makes his bike work again? Show your work.
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Old 04-29-19, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mmcc73 View Post
Plus, I need to shift the spindle towards the non drive side, and if I remember correctly it is fixed to the non drive side.
That varies with the make/model of cartridge. I've had some where the cartridge itself goes into the DS, some where it goes into the NDS. I don't recall which way a UN55 is offhand. Do you remember from when you installed it?
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