And in a similar vein, the handwaving of fanbois does not necessarily make delicate tires suitable for touring.

I wouldn't use Compass tires for touring either, but Calgary to Vancouver is under 1,000k. Pretty sure the RTP's will make it that far. Yes, they will wear out faster and flat more easily than a proper touring tire, but they will roll a lot faster too. That's always the trade-off with tires.

The idea of using some delicate lightweight tire to "roll a lot faster" on a fully-loaded, 26" wheeled touring bike is fairly meaningless.

What will be noticeable when loaded for touring: roadside debris, cracked/potholed pavement, slower bike handling/response, limited space for maneuvering on the shoulder, etc. The desire for a durable tire will increase with each pound added to the bike, and each flat that could have otherwise been avoided.

No indeed. You'd be a fool to go on tour with a tire you consider delicate. And it is very hard to have any other impression of a tire once you've had a string of punctures. I too would move on. Nonetheless, your annoyance at Compass tires is no more contagious than another guy's love of them, and one way or the other, each of us will have to form our own opinion. In my experience (caution: annecdote ahead!) Compass tires are not delicate, and less prone to catastrophic failure than cheaper tires.

(just so we're on the same page here)
Is that your experience with Rat Trap Pass tires, or based on something else? This thread is full of anecdotes and assumptions, and sometimes it's not even clear which is which.

With something like tires, and especially these tires, it is nearly impossible to distinguish subjective statements from objective ones. It seems to me the only indisputable facts about Compass tires are that (1) they are expensive and (2) anything Jan Heine may say about them will be the subject of controversy.

Several years ago I had a bass amp- I had overheating problems with it- the store I bought it from took it back and gave me a HELLA deal on an amp by the same company. I had overheating problems with that. I loved the way the amp sounded, it just happened to overheat and go into thermal shutdown at gigs. I didn't have any other problems with any other amps with the same basses and cabinets- just these two amps from this one company. Now- that company had been around for 20 some years by that point, that model of amp had been in production for around 10 years at that point, there were hundreds, if not thousands of happy customers. Of course, this was the early days of Internet forums- but it seemed my experience was a serious outlier in relation to other people's experiences with those amps.

I can't imagine my use of the amp was beyond what that amp was designed for, I don't think I pushed it THAT hard (one 4 and one 8 ohm cab run in stereo at stage volume with 3, 4, or 5 piece bands with PA support) it was always stored properly, it was mounted in a rack as intended... while there have been other reviews of the amp running hot- I don't see bunches of reviews about the amp going into thermal shutdown. At this point- almost 20 years later, I accept it was either me, my gear or those two particular amps. I still think the amp sounds phenomenal; I've made a bunch of modifications to the amp (and my rack) over the years to improve cooling air flow- I haven't had any problems with it since then, however, I also don't play out as often as I used to.

I posted a quote from a guy I know who rode cross country on RTP tires, fully loaded. He made it on one set of tires, averaging over 100 miles a day. Is it less durable? No question, I've torn a sidewall on a RTP tires that I'm pretty sure a Schwalbe Marathon would have held up to. Would I want to do the Southern Tier on Schwalbe Marathons and average over 100 miles a day? No way.

I've got a certain Woodrup in l'Atelier currently that has some 700c x 38 Compass tires, same casing as RTP. The guy posted his tour from Washington to Colorado on it. I've done a half dozen credit card tours on Compass and Gran Bois Hetres (similar tire), I had flats on 4 of those tours. I've ridden over the demonstrably rugged North Trask route on nasty gravel twice on RTP tires. The first time I had a flat, but it was on a paved section! Getting a flat tire isn't the end of the world if you carry appropriate spares and tools.

I have two similarly set up Raleigh Grand Sports, one with Panaracer Paselas, the other with Compass tires, same size on both (700c x 35). I've commuted on both of them over the past year, enough to give an informed opinion. The Compass tires are noticeably easier to pedal.

I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience with Compass tires. Would a more durable tire hold up in the same exact rides? Maybe, probably? Surely a beefier tire will be more flat resistant, and a casing cut is much more likely on a supple tire.

If you look a the weight of a Schwalbe Marathon, for example (which seems to be the long distance tire of choice) vs a Compass RTP, you can afford to bring a spare tire for about the same total weight. Your ride will definitely be nicer. The idea of using some delicate lightweight tire to "roll a lot faster" on a fully-loaded, 26" wheeled touring bike is not meaningless to me. As usual, YMMV. The big, cushy RTP tires make potholes and cracks in the road sometimes un-noticeable. I can plow through light gravel on road shoulders with these fatties that would make me scared on narrower tires.

Just like in the Olympics of old, read a lot off reviews and experiences, throw out the East German and Canadian judges, average the rest, and you'll get a good idea of what to expect.

Good point. My experience with Compass vs. HS440s & 404s is with the 700c size. Although I have used Compass ELs in 700x32 & 38 exclusively for thousands of miles of randonneuring over the last four seasons, I have never ridden the RTP's. For my 26" bikes I use other tires that I think are more appropriate for the way I use those bikes.

It's not always hand-waving, I'd done lots of urban riding, gravel and day-tours on Compass tires with no issues. When it came time to set-up my loaded touring bike there was no reason not to use them, they did not seem delicate in any sense of the word. And so far they have not shown any issues, so I'd have no hesitation recommending someone else go the same route as I. I've done about a week and half of total touring spread over 1300 miles with about 10% gravel.

Conversely, I've had such bad luck with Continental tires I'd never recommend them for touring or even general riding.

So as always, it comes down to the OP reading about others who choose to share from experience or those who choose to share from lack of experience.

I agree with you. I would use a touring tire too. Other people make lots of equipment choices that wouldn't work for me. That doesn't make them wrong.

I've ridden a pair of RTP (tubed) for about two or three years riding in Boston. I haven't had a flat since installation; just a lot of random tar and a huge wad of gum. I have no clue how many miles, but I know the tread is starting to go. They're on a Stump Jumper that weighs a good 40 pounds without me on it. Total weight is usually around 180, depending on what I'm carrying. I think the quality of the ride is worth the risk; as long you "get light" when needed and don't intentionally ride through shards of glass you should be okay. It's worth noting that my perspective skews young (20s-30s) who are probably a lot harder on their bikes. I ride at about 35 psi; some of my friends switched to tubeless and run at 20 psi with great results.

This is awesome feedback. Thank you guys for the discussion. For reference, I plan on having rear panniers with a total weight of about 20lb each, and two front panniers, 15lb each. Maybe less. I need to budget my things well.

The bike itself is bulletproof. It's fairly light at 26lb. For an old mountain bike, that's pretty good given that it's tange0900 tubing.

When I get my new wheelset and hopefully compass tires, the bike should weight 23 or 24lb unloaded.

I'll be travelling fairly fast, but there are many factors affecting the trip itself so who knows. I'm still taking notes, so please engage in this wonderful discussion

One nice thing about RTP tires that hasn't been mentioned is that they fold up well, so for a large tire they get fairly small. I always carry one as a spare (well actually my spare is the next size down, 1.75" or something, my logic being that if something goes wrong and the wheel is out of true, a thinner tire will work better).

I have learned that it's always a good idea to carry a spare tire. Necessary? Hopefully not! But better to have one and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

The schwalbe marathan supremes rock and you can get them at a decent price from one of the UK vendors. I use 26 x 2.0 schwalbe marathon supremes on my Bridgestone MB 1. I've been very happy with how well they perform. I'd get the schwalbes over the compass tires for this application.

It just hit me - what do you consider touring? 1,000 kilometers seems like a goodly tour to me. I've done a few 4-600 mile "rides" with several overnight stays along the way. I tell people it's "touring".

I think that's the divide - are you a tourist who isn't concerned about how fast you're going? Maybe your mileage doesn't require a good pace to finish. If you're not terribly concerned about how much your gear weighs, you're likely to be in the Schwalbe Marathon camp. If you have an ultra-lite tent, you're more likely to be in the Compass supple casing camp. Risk adversive? Schwalbe. Big daily mileage? Compass.

Risk/reward. It's good to hear many people's experiences.

I think it's touring if the person doing the ride wants to call it touring. I'm more into randonneuring so for me 1,000k is a 3 day ride. My point was that 1,000k isn't really that far for any set of tires, not that 1,000k isn't a tour.

Ha! You and [MENTION=73614]rhm[/MENTION] might think so!

Meanwhile, most of us think 50-70 miles/day with camping gear is plenty for one day!

Your point is well taken, it doesn't matter whether you're putting in 1,000k in 3 days or 10. I would say, however, that a 1,000km brevet randonneur + bike weighs a lot less than a 1,000km tourist + bike + gear, with higher wear and tear along with it.

Yeah, almost all of the touring I've done in the pat 5 years is credit card style. Total weight of my kit has never exceeded 17 lbs including bags, not including bike and rider. The guy who averaged a 200km brevet a day across the southern US ran 236 pounds fully loaded including rider, one pair of RTP tires for the entire ride. His gear totaled around 45 lbs. Credit card touring on Compass tires I'm closer to 265 lbs including rider. He was doing loaded touring, I wasn't. Loaded touring doesn't mean anything to the tires, total weight does.

Like most things, there's a tradeoff. I wouldn't consider doing credit card touring without a wide, light, supple tire. On the small end I've used 700c x 33.333 Jack Browns (essentially the same as a Compass tire, but in between sizes they offer), up to 42's.

Years ago, I learned the tire industry's method for rating sizes. They flattened the tire out, measured the distance bead-to-bead, and then divided by 2.5. This will surely yield numbers other than the inflated width, depending on aspect ratio, among other things. I don't know if they use the same rule these days, but if they did, I would not be surprised. That's why it's good to get anecdotes about how wide a tire actually is, if your clearance is critical.

yeah but I'm talking about the conversion of inches to millimeters. 2.3=56? Really?

Oh right! Yeah, that's not right. Whazzup wit dat?

Are you sure that yours say 56 on them? My RTPs say 58 on the sidewall rubber, and I'd be very surprised if two differently-patterned molds exist for any of the Compass tires.

Hmm, you know, I think you're right. But it'll be a day or two before I can check. That is, about the RTP tires. The mathematical discrepancy may have come from somewhere else.