Frame ID help, please
#1
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Somewhat slow older guy

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
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From: C-bus, OH
Bikes: '83 Trek 311, '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '06 LeMond Poprad, '07 LeMond plastic bike, '97 Serotta CSI, '90 Bridgestone MB-1, '90 Bianchi Project 7, '24 Lynskey GR350 and a few others.
Frame ID help, please
Can anyone help to ID this frame? This bike is for sale at a local co-op, frame has been repainted with no stampings other than the bb serial number. Mostly Campy drive train with Campy dropouts. Size is 59cm and they're asking $220, in case anyone is interested. I can get other photos if they would be helpful- just let me know.
Any help would be appreciated - thanks.








Any help would be appreciated - thanks.








#6
They are BCM (Bocama) Serie Super-Leger Luxe headlugs, so I'm sticking with my "Benelux" guess for now...still need the BB threading and seatpost size, or just have [MENTION=383399]MauriceMoss[/MENTION] chime in!
#7
Thread Starter
Somewhat slow older guy

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
Likes: 16
From: C-bus, OH
Bikes: '83 Trek 311, '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '06 LeMond Poprad, '07 LeMond plastic bike, '97 Serotta CSI, '90 Bridgestone MB-1, '90 Bianchi Project 7, '24 Lynskey GR350 and a few others.
OK- thanks guys. I'll measure the seatpost on Tuesday, and see if they want to pull the BB to check threading.
Stand by.
Stand by.
#8
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Joined: Oct 2015
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From: PDX
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
#9
Thread Starter
Somewhat slow older guy

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
Likes: 16
From: C-bus, OH
Bikes: '83 Trek 311, '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '06 LeMond Poprad, '07 LeMond plastic bike, '97 Serotta CSI, '90 Bridgestone MB-1, '90 Bianchi Project 7, '24 Lynskey GR350 and a few others.
"Gacked" as in bent, or ? I didn't notice anything in person- perhaps it's the cheesy iPhone photos? I'll have another look.
Thanks.
Thanks.
#10
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From: PDX
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
#11
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16,082
Likes: 9,441
From: PDX
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
#12
Thread Starter
Somewhat slow older guy

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
Likes: 16
From: C-bus, OH
Bikes: '83 Trek 311, '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '06 LeMond Poprad, '07 LeMond plastic bike, '97 Serotta CSI, '90 Bridgestone MB-1, '90 Bianchi Project 7, '24 Lynskey GR350 and a few others.
Merziac - I took that bright spot right under the headset cup to be from cable rub - I'll look closer this coming Tuesday. I would have grabbed it, but it's too big for me (59 c-t-c), and I'm trying to be better about buying stuff I can't ride <G>.
#13
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Bikes: None in ridable condition
[MENTION=17926]unworthy1[/MENTION] is spot on with the lug ID.
My first hunch was Belgium/Netherlands, too. However, seeing the bottom bracket shell made me think in another direction.
I'm leaning towards this being an early 80s Puch (Mistral) Replica or maybe Superlicht.
Some of these had 7 digit numbers stamped into the bottom bracket shell (in addition to the ones in OP's pics) but some apparently didn't. I'm not sure what the non-serial numbers actually mean.
Anyways, here are some pics:
Replica:


Superlicht:


Some bottom bracket shells:


My first hunch was Belgium/Netherlands, too. However, seeing the bottom bracket shell made me think in another direction.
I'm leaning towards this being an early 80s Puch (Mistral) Replica or maybe Superlicht.
Some of these had 7 digit numbers stamped into the bottom bracket shell (in addition to the ones in OP's pics) but some apparently didn't. I'm not sure what the non-serial numbers actually mean.
Anyways, here are some pics:
Replica:


Superlicht:


Some bottom bracket shells:


#15
Thread Starter
Somewhat slow older guy

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
Likes: 16
From: C-bus, OH
Bikes: '83 Trek 311, '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '06 LeMond Poprad, '07 LeMond plastic bike, '97 Serotta CSI, '90 Bridgestone MB-1, '90 Bianchi Project 7, '24 Lynskey GR350 and a few others.
Now we're gettin' somewhere- thanks!
#16
Yeah Mr. Moss is the MAN! Excellent sleuthing (as we take for granted from Maurice) and nice bikes these Austrians, often have longer than usual top tubes for folks with tall torso and certainly some combo of 531 DB tubing...buy it!
#17
Senior Member




Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 16,082
Likes: 9,441
From: PDX
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Ahh, right you are, can see it way better on the big screen, doh!
#18

Borrowed without permission from https://anciensveloslyonnais.weebly.com/bocama.html
-an awesome resource, check 'em out. (I'm new here; someone let me know if that kinda borrowing is not cool.)
I think the BB shell is RGF (Raccords Gargatte Frères or just Gargatte for short.)
Instantly distinguishable by the large RGF in an oval, stamped into the top left -- unless someone brazed a big ol' cable guide fitting right over the stamped letters. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
-Mark Bulgier, Seattle
#19

Whoa! Mark Bulgier has joined our little group! ^ WELCOME Mark, your reputation proceeds you!^
I did not know the "Gargle Bros" made a slotted shell like that, but there's a lot I don't know.
I think "borrowing" images for non-profit use on this forum is A-OK but I always try to give credit when I do, but I only play a Lawyer on TV!

So sticking my neck out (or my foot into it): here's a pic of a RGF shell with the slots going the "wrong way" reproduced without permission from the interwebs but this is fully copyright Dale Brown because it's originally from Classic Rendezvous site and Dale is very sensitive about maintaining his copyright!
Well on cross-exam it turns out these images were already "borrowed" from Velobase so don't think Dale and CR could claim copyright on them anyway, but at least CR did give credit, so...your honor I move to dismiss, ipso facto!
Last edited by unworthy1; 02-26-19 at 07:24 PM. Reason: new info
#20
Thread Starter
Somewhat slow older guy

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
Likes: 16
From: C-bus, OH
Bikes: '83 Trek 311, '96 Litespeed Catalyst, '06 LeMond Poprad, '07 LeMond plastic bike, '97 Serotta CSI, '90 Bridgestone MB-1, '90 Bianchi Project 7, '24 Lynskey GR350 and a few others.
And- I left tonight without putting a mic on the seatpost- sorry!
We'll accept the Puch ID as "close enough."
Thanks to everyone for the help!
We'll accept the Puch ID as "close enough."
Thanks to everyone for the help!
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