I have a Gazelle frame that looks somewhat similar, but I've always thought (and still think) that was the result of carrying passengers on the rear rack, which is fairly common in my area.

Ha! Another reasonable possibility. I suppose it depends on how evenly matched the curvature in the stays actually is, and whether or not the chain stays have any warp, to determine the likelihood of how or when this work was carried out.

Thanks for your contributions.
The seller has already sold me the Carlton Cobra bicycle, which belonged to his father before his death.
He was always under the impression that the bicycle was from the 1960 /1970's period, but since I have corresponded with him, he now believes that it might be earlier.
His father was the first owner from new and it was purchased from a bicycle retailer, not from a Carlton employee etc.

The bicycle frame and forks are chromium plated as per the Cobra specification and the original Accrillichrome paint finish has not been tampered with.
Even if it ever had, a rear luggage carrier would not have caused the consistent curvature, after being severely overloaded.
The front caliper model number is usually fitted to the rear wheel, a different number to the front wheel.

I have read from a reproduced Carlton catalogue [date unknown] that Reynolds 531 double-butted tubing was used on the Cobra model for all frame tubes, including the front forks and that all Cobra frames were Accrillichrome finished in either red or blue.
There was no specific mention of a brake / stem or handlebar manufacturer - only "alloy". The chainset is quoted as Nicklin, with Dunlop Sprite wheels and a 5 or 10 speed Simplex Prestige set-up - no mention of Huret.

Why this bicycle frame has the decal from a different manufacturer's tube-set is a mystery.

I have asked the UK's National Cycle Museum if they can identify the frame and I'll put their comments on here.
In the meantime, I'll have another word with the seller about the bicycle's past history.

Watch this space !

The Cobra was added to the Carlton lineup for the 1966 model year. It is not older than that. I have PDF versions of all of the catalogs from the late 1960s and the Cobra does not appear in 1965 price list as a complete bicycle or frameset, and in the 1966 catalog it is specifically listed as being a new model, with the description reading:

"COBRA. New style Continental shaded finish on chrome. Black/Blue. Black/Red."

-Gregory

Thanks, that's fair enough as far as it goes.
This means that it was a development of the [1930s] Continental frame, initiated by Raleigh who at this time, were "Carlton".
From the early 1950's as far as I've seen on many photographs, all Carlton frames had brazed-on cable stops on the righthand side of the top tube for the rear brake cable.
The frame that I have bought has only Campagnolo cable clips on the top tube and I'm pretty certain that someone would not either remove the braze-ons, or persuade Carlton / Raleigh to leave them off.
There still appears to be no rational explanation for the curved rear stays - and I haven't seen any photographic evidence or otherwise, to suggest that this curved frame style was available for sale from a retail outlet, or even illustrated / specified in a Carlton catalogue.
I'm still researching and will report any new findings.
Thanks to all for your comments and opinions which I find fascinating and very interesting.

I am told that the guys at the UK's National Cycle Museum have no knowledge of a curved seat stay Carlton frame.
The seller's father was apparently a Carlton bicycle collector and had several models. As far as this bicycle is concerned, he suggests that the frame might have been made by Carlton for his father, specifically for him.
He is not aware of any connection that his father might have had with Carlton.
This information seems to answer the question, for the time being at least.

Apparently the guy has / had consulted a "specialist" who told him that curved stay Carlton frames were common and it seems that his father didn't have any connection with the Carlton company..
Does anyone have any knowledge of these "phantom" curly frames, because I can't find a reference to just one anywhere - but I'd very much like to ?

I now have the bicycle and it has been dismantled so that the frame can be carefully examined.
The seat stays are exactly identical in profile. The upper part of the stay above the bridge is straight. The lower part is a constant curve of 32" - approx. 810 mm +/-. There is no visible damage whatsoever of a rear end impact. The brazed joins at each end are not deformed in any way. At the top, the gold lug lining is still there, which indicates that either the frame was built up with the curved stays [possibly using a larger frame's stays] and the whole frame then chromium plated / Accrillicoated - or it was modified afterwards and the plating / painting etc repeated.
All the chromework had in the past been lightly greased.
There is a strange eliptical decal near the top of each stay, red with an elongated gold C and the whole surrounded with a pale blue "garland".
There is an X embossed on the underside of the bottom bracket and on the left rear drop-out the number 220107.
The top tube Carlton Cobra decal is in old script /Olympic rings and not the later "chubby" type, currently on offer on ebay.
The decals are similar in style to the 1952 Massed Start frame.
In my opinion, this frame was either a special order to Carlton from the original owner [he was the only owner before me- sold by his son] or equally likely, Carlton produced this frame as an experimental prototype for a possible future model and when Raleigh saw it, they weren't interested and somehow it was sold to the previous owner.
As far as I can ascertain the Cobra model was discontinued in the late 1960's, so it was only produced for a few years.
I stand corrected !

It’s certainly a frame with interesting angles and a beautiful finish. I can’t wait to heat how it rides. Nice pickup!

It seems as if it's hardly been ridden. There is paint loss on the allover chrome finish but that's to be expected, as it's very difficult to get paint to adhere to chrome whether it's been polished to any degree or not.
There's hardly any wear on the Nicklin chainwheel [170 mm cranks], the rear 5 speed freewheel, the tyres and the chain is remarkably clean.
The saddle is a Wrights Olympian on a Sturmey Archer seatpost.
The rear brake blocks were not at the top of the caliper slot and fortunately, the Carlton embossed brake hoods are not cracked or worn.
All in all, I'm very impressed with this "curly Carlton" - bought for less than £100 on ebay !

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIQUE-CA...8AAOSwxSxdYQ4c

From the advertisement:

[MENTION=191426]keidal[/MENTION] I'm very curious about how you eventually found out this amazing back story, when you started out here having little knowledge of what you had in your possession.

-Gregory

Sorry about the bump, but this is such a special bike, I don't want this thread to dwindle to page 67 ....

I have a theory that the frame is damaged, I am sorry to report. The wrap-over stays on these models is just a single piece cast steel, a time saving device on lower-end models. It tapers to a thin radius and then tapers back out on the other side. It allowed frame builders to wrap over the stays quickly at any angle, no matter what size is the frame. If you take a really close look at the wrap-over stays, you will see that the cast item is positioned to point downwards STRAIGHT TOWARDS the dropout. While it's atop the seat lug, it points that way. But just as it ends (it's only about 1.5" long and slips into the seat stays at the middle of the "C" decal), the seat stays change direction and head more towards the chain stays or bottom bracket. If you were building a frame from scratch, it would NOT change direction like this. If you were buidling a frame like this, the wrap-over would be pointing more downwards and there would not be a change of direction between the wrapover and the start of the seat stay tubing. The good news is that I am certain this in no way affects the soundness or ride of this frameset.

As far as I'm aware Carlton never shipped a bike with curved stays. I own 20+ Carlton bikes including a 1950 Carlton flyer which has a wrinkle right beneath the seat lug all the way around because someone put something too heavy on the seat, compressing the seat tube, once upon a time. I think something similar happened here - maybe someone hit the saddle while the bike was atop a car on the way into the garage or something similar.

If my theory is correct you will be able to find wrinkling int the paint or chrome somewhere along one of the seat stays.

By the way I once owned the very same type of frameset - 2030 carbon steel, wrapover stays, 23.5" size, 1973 Raleigh Grand Prix. I once shifted the Suntour V-GT derailleur into the spokes at 30mph and locked up the rear wheel. After slipping and doing a foot touch-down on the right, left, right, left, I managed to stop (my rear wheel had stopped instantly, skidding the tires), and my right rear seatstay had quite a bend near the dropout of about 12mm inwards from the tremendous torque applied by the force of the ground and the drivetrain as I was pedaling like mad when I shifted the gears into the spoke, causing an instant rear-wheel-stop. So a similar type of frame damage can happen to a carbon steel frameset like this. My frame was pulled out (just the right-side seatstay was bent in - not both - and in a much more localized place) at a bike shop with a wire-pulled tube-straightening tool, I think VAR made them. Since your frame is truwell tubing you might have exceptionally (too) lightweight seatstays, it was a type of lightweight bike called a club racer which was later outlawed by the CPSC, making this type of damage more likely from a rear wheel lock-up (without the furious pedaling as I was doing). Alternately, maybe someone weighing 350 lbs sat down hard on the seat, but got up before the frame was pretzled completely?

The stay ends at the dropouts would also follow the curve of the stays if this were built as such. A close look at the domed end indicates that they once pointed directly at the seatlug cluster, not forward of it.

I'm not convinced for one solitary instant second that it was built like this, no matter what some want to believe. However, I don't believe this is the result of a crash. With Hetchins being a prominent English brand at the time, this looks like an intentional modification. Someone wanted the look of a Hetchins and couldn't afford it. Some careful cold-setting (and likely a lower BB later), this was the result.

I wouldn't be surprised if some equally careful adjustment could straighten this mess back out again. I'll bet anything the top tube slopes slightly as the length lost by curving the seatstays would have raised the rear chainstays and subsequently the rear drops. It would also account for the longer Weinmann brake caliper being out of place. With the stays straightened, the caliper would be reaching further rearwards to access the curvature of the rim - meaning the brake pads would have to come down in their slots to meet the braking surface, and thus explaining why it was spec'ed in the first place.

Also, just a reminder to those who haven't run a Google search, every other Carlton Cobra out there looks like the ones below, with differences primarily in livery per year. Most importantly, not a single one of them demonstrate curved stays.



I said it before, and I'll say it again: Someone wanted to stand out like a Hetchins, and knew someone crafty enough with cold-setting to do it. It's doable.

-Kurt

EDIT: Oh, great. Suckered into a zombie thread again.

All good as far as I'm concerned, glad somebody finally showed and said it.

Dragged my bike into it along with you, thanks; now it looks a little different:

Sorry about that, should have cited the original thread: Carlton Cobra followed me home

Is that semi-transparent paint, or genuine cromovelato? Looks gorgeous, regardless.

-Kurt

Neither. It's Krylon "Stained Glass" paint, which is fully transparent and tinted. It's not at all durable, and takes a huge number of very light coats coats to get any kind of saturation - roughly twenty for each of the colours shown. Put it on any thicker and it runs like Bolt. Most of the chromovelato-type paint jobs I have done since have used Duplicolor "Metalcast" which is less runny, seems a bit harder and is more intense - but the colour selection is different. There is a graffiti-paint brand that promises a lot of nice transparent colours but I haven't tried them yet, it's not going to be painting weather here for at least four months.